[Redway]

I’m sure this thread’s been done to death on here over the years but I recently stumbled across an interview with Pam St Clement who expressed pretty similar sentiments to my take on the issue (and I’m sure a lot of others share that sentiment as well). Said sentiment being that prohibition of the drug causes more harm than good and that it should be made legalised.

https://youtu.be/yedDB-WnMQk

[thesheriff443]

No it should be moved up a class it has clear links to mental health problems
It’s usually the starting point for drug user’s and drug sellers
It stinks
White people smoke it and talk like they are a Rastafarian straight out of Jamaica and talk complete bollox

[LaLaLand]

I don't know enough to vote for the first option but I do know it's incredible at aiding sufferers of various ailments and what not. Arthritis, Parkinson's, various pain disorders etc.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

No it should be moved up a class it has clear links to mental health problems
It’s usually the starting point for drug user’s and drug sellers
It stinks
White people smoke it and talk like they are a Rastafarian straight out of Jamaica and talk complete bollox

The mental health issues are more the effect of unregulated street weed (with disproportionately high THC to CBD and possible contamination with other substances) than anything else. Pure cannabis (the type obtainable in countries where weed’s decriminalised/legalised) seems to be much better for those things.

I’d rather random people talking Rastafarian than going out picking fights with anyone with a pulse and stripping naked on the streets (the effects of alcohol) but that’s just me.

[Redway]

Also: weed having a certain dank smell isn’t tangible grounds for keeping it illegal (tobacco smells even worse and has long-known adverse health effects even in its pure regulated form and that remains legal).

I haven’t made this thread for the sake of arguing or to push a super-duper pro-weed narrative (I’m fairly indifferent about what other people choose to do or not do) but I just find it hard to find any arguments against its legalisation/decriminalisation that aren’t based solely on personal preference or ironic anecdotes about it being harmful for mental health (when it’s been more or less proven that illegalisation is a big contributing factor to it).

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Redway

The mental health issues are more the effect of unregulated street weed (with disproportionately high THC to CBD and possible contamination with other substances) than anything else. Pure cannabis (the type obtainable in countries where weed’s decriminalised/legalised) seems to be much better for those things.

I’d rather random people talking Rastafarian than going out picking fights with anyone with a pulse and stripping naked on the streets (the effects of alcohol) but that’s just me.

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

Legalising it would massively reduce that though. People wouldn't have to buy it from criminals anymore

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Legalising it would massively reduce that though. People wouldn't have to buy it from criminals anymore

That would not stop the problem

Fags are legal but people still buy and sell illegal fags

Then there would be people saying legal weed is not as strong or good as non illegal weed and create a black market

Plus you get the idiots that say smoking weed is better for you than fags when you break a fag and remove the filter to make a spliff

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

That would not stop the problem

Fags are legal but people still buy and sell illegal fags

Then there would be people saying legal weed is not as strong or good as non illegal weed and create a black market

Plus you get the idiots that say smoking weed is better for you than fags when you break a fag and remove the filter to make a spliff

I didn't say it would stop it but it would greatly reduce it imo Most people would opt for the legal option if the option was there, just like most people buy legal cigarettes rather than the black market cigarettes

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I didn't say it would stop it but it would greatly reduce it imo Most people would opt for the legal option if the option was there, just like most people buy legal cigarettes rather than the black market cigarettes

Unless it stops the illegal side of things you are just making a two tier problem

People that smoke weed are not all young single people many have families the money that is spent on weed is taken from the family pot, weed causes harm in a family setting

Weed is a drug like any other and like cocaine it’s marketed as a recreational drug

We should not be encouraging or giving people an option to do drugs

Because alcohol is legal and that destroys so many lives

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Unless it stops the illegal side of things you are just making a two tier problem

People that smoke weed are not all young single people many have families the money that is spent on weed is taken from the family pot, weed causes harm in a family setting

Weed is a drug like any other and like cocaine it’s marketed as a recreational drug

We should not be encouraging or giving people an option to do drugs

Because alcohol is legal and that destroys so many lives

Practically everything "has an illegal side" you can buy most things on the black market.

Yes drugs and alcohol can cause issues if abused but it's very nanny state like to take away the choice for everyone because some people have addictive personalities

***I don't smoke marijuana so this isn't coming from me wanting to smoke it

[The Slim Reaper]

Niamh when she gets home, popping Marley on the stereo and putting on her beanie with dreads attached.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s interesting you mention alcohol because drug driving is just as serious and reckless as drink driving

A human brain does not work the same when it’s under the influence of drink or drugs

The idea that if smoking weed fills the world with chilled out people is nonexistent

Dealing and growing weed is highly profitable and run by gangs that use violence to keep or take control of areas

Only recently 3 people were convicted of murder after rivals broke into a grow house and a fight broke out, two people were killed with a cross bow and in the struggle one guy shot and killed his own brother

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Niamh when she gets home, popping Marley on the stereo and putting on her beanie with dreads attached.

[joeysteele]

I'm not 100% the way to thinking it should be legalised.
However if asked to make a decision now, I'd say yes.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

It’s a criminal offence so you are wrong

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s a criminal offence so you are wrong

Legality is a completely different metric to danger.

It's illegal to walk up to a stranger and punch them in the face, and also to stab someone in the neck, but those things are not equal when it comes to danger.

[Beso]

Yes it should, and it should be compulsory.

[user104658]

Decriminalised but not legalised. The idea that alcohol & tobacco being legal has "caused less harm than good" is nonsense and in fact serves AS evidence that legalising a drug normalises the use of that drug and increases uptake 100-fold.

Weed is used to self-medicate - always a bad idea.

It has quite serious links to depression and anxiety. This is often excused as "Oh it doesn't CAUSE those things, people use it to help with those things so that's why it's linked". This claim is usually made by people who don't want to stop using it. There are clear links to a worsening effect, escalating problematic use (i.e. being unable to lead a normal functioning life due to spending too much time inebriated) and a myriad of negative effects, especially over time.

In the above sense (when used to self-medicate) it absolutely is a foothold to harder drugs.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

Myths like this exist which are EXTREMELY dangerous and I sincerely hope that anyone who drives high gets caught, today, and loses their license on the spot. DO NOT DRIVE HIGH. It is HUGELY dangerous and reckless. It is a depressant. In smaller amounts it lowers your reaction times significantly, just like driving on a small amount of alcohol. In larger amounts it completely removes your ability to operate the vehicle normally. Just like large amounts of alcohol. Don't do it - and don't spread the myth that it's "less reckless" than driving drunk.

The health and social implications of full legalisation (and thus commercialisation) are absolutely massive. It's fine as it is. Decriminalise possession and use, and small-scale dealing and even small-scale growing. Beyond that? No, we don't want a world where the majority of the adult population is smoking weed as well as getting drunk every weekend.

I'm not even being puritan about this - I smoked it numerous times as a teen/at University like pretty much everyone else. Keep it there where it belongs.

(100% legalise for legitimate medical use though, that's a separate debate)

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Driving on weed is nowhere near as dangerous and reckless as alcohol.

But doesn't weed make you feel 'Drunk'?

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Myths like this exist which are EXTREMELY dangerous and I sincerely hope that anyone who drives high gets caught, today, and loses their license on the spot. DO NOT DRIVE HIGH. It is HUGELY dangerous and reckless. It is a depressant. In smaller amounts it lowers your reaction times significantly, just like driving on a small amount of alcohol. In larger amounts it completely removes your ability to operate the vehicle normally. Just like large amounts of alcohol. Don't do it - and don't spread the myth that it's "less reckless" than driving drunk.

The health and social implications of full legalisation (and thus commercialisation) are absolutely massive. It's fine as it is. Decriminalise possession and use, and small-scale dealing and even small-scale growing. Beyond that? No, we don't want a world where the majority of the adult population is smoking weed as well as getting drunk every weekend.

I'm not even being puritan about this - I smoked it numerous times as a teen/at University like pretty much everyone else. Keep it there where it belongs.

(100% legalise for legitimate medical use though, that's a separate debate)

I'm talking from personal experience. I believe I've spoken about this before, but they're not equal in anyway whatsoever. I'm not advocating that folks get off their tits and go joyriding, but I'm telling you there are very real differences between the experiences. I've driven on most substances, and alcohol and mushrooms are a level apart when it comes to reckless and danger.

I'm not proud of this, either; it's not a boast, I'm just telling you from my experience how different those experiences are.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

But doesn't weed make you feel 'Drunk'?

I'm sure most people have different experiences, but the high from weed is completely different from the buzz of alcohol.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm talking from personal experience. I believe I've spoken about this before, but they're not equal in anyway whatsoever. I'm not advocating that folks get off their tits and go joyriding, but I'm telling you there are very real differences between the experiences. I've driven on most substances, and alcohol and mushrooms are a level apart when it comes to reckless and danger.

I'm not proud of this, either; it's not a boast, I'm just telling you from my experience how different those experiences are.

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm sure most people have different experiences, but the high from weed is completely different from the buzz of alcohol.

Again subjectively how it feels is not necessarily the reality of neurological effect; THC is not a stimulant. You don't get "high" on weed, it's chemically impossible, it's a depressive that produces dopamine, which is exactly what alcohol does. It's just a "cleaner" dopamine flood. You're still doped-up.

It's also the reason that - just like daily drinking - habitual regular use beats the **** out of your D1 dopamine receptors, making normal dopamine levels ineffective at regulating mood. i.e. it causes depression and anxiety and your only options are to

1) continue to flood with excess dopamine (continue daily drinking or smoking)

2) Compensate with serotonin increases (i.e. SSRI antidepressants, or obsessive exercise for tryptophan release. Often neither are enough.)

or 3) stop for long enough to (hopefully) allow the dopamine receptors to return to normal function (if they're not damaged beyond repair).

So again ... ... no to legalisation and normalisation.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

I didn't say it doesn't have any affect at all, I just said it was on a completely different level of danger, which I completely stand by without any hesitation. To this day, I'd hop in a car without any fear if one of my friends was driving baked, but I'd never get in the motor with a drunk driver. Maybe that complacency is also dangerous (it's not even remotely likely these days) but it's borne out of over a decade worth of unintentional testing.