[rusticgal]

Well I have a few stories to tell of sightings, happenings that are unexplained that makes me believe in something...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Well I have a few stories to tell of sightings, happenings that are unexplained that makes me believe in something...

people always do but they never stand up to any scrutiny

that is why science exists so that things can be analysed and evidenced using peer-reviewed scientific evidence that has been honed through years and years of experimental research


it kind of trumps "well when I was staying at my auntie's a saw this shadow at the end of my bed"

[Crimson Dynamo]

Stephen Hawking:

""I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There
is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid
of the dark," he added."

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its not a 50:50 split

There is a mountain of scientific evidence to say no and absolutely NONE to say its a possibility

as usual plenty say yes i believe it

and the number of people who can actually say how it would actually work is


0

There is zero evidence to say no

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

There is zero evidence to say no

there is no need to provide any

just like there is no need to provide evidence that the universe exists on the back of a very large turtle

argumentum ad ignorantiam

[bots]

i like to think that we are on some kids computer screen and he has just got the latest pandemic expansion pack

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

there is no need to provide any

just like there is no need to provide evidence that the universe exists on the back of a very large turtle

argumentum ad ignorantiam

Sure but that's a different argument to saying there's a mountain of evidence to say no lol

Science can't answer everything and is not infallible

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sure but that's a different argument to saying there's a mountain of evidence to say no lol

Science can't answer everything and is not infallible

what i mean by that is there is a mountain of evidence of what the brain is, how it works, how we think, see, record memories, live, breathe, exist by using organs and blood

and also what happens to that lot when we die

indeed what happens to all things when they die - even things like suns, planets and galaxies

So science can answer the question to what happens to you and your body when you die

Humans can use their brains and imagination to create fiction and that is explained too

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what i mean by that is there is a mountain of evidence of what the brain is, how it works, how we think, see, record memories, live, breathe, exist by using organs and blood

and also what happens to that lot when we die

indeed what happens to all things when they die - even things like suns, planets and galaxies

So science can answer the question to what happens to you and your body when you die

Humans can use their brains and imagination to create fiction and that is explained too

Sure but the afterlife is something beyond all that which science can never touch plus every generation of scientists will disprove the previous one in some area or another so its not like they have all the answers even when it comes to things that are in their remit

The last two years of covid should show the limitations of 'following the science'

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Sure but the afterlife is something beyond all that which science can never touch plus every generation of scientists will disprove the previous one in some area or another so its not like they have all the answers even when it comes to things that are in their remit

The last two years of covid should show the limitations of 'following the science'

no they dont they show the limitations of modeling worse case scenarios and then scaring politicians that they will get the blame if they come true -

the science created the vaccine and thank the fictitious god for that

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Redway

And this is why you people are the worst to engage in these discussions. There’s never any genuine sense of engagement on your part. Anything that doesn’t resonate with your mechanical way of looking at the world is nonsense by default.

[Parmy]

Look at LT trying his hardest to convince everyone hes not one of my wasted sperm.


Dont be afraid LT, your surrounded by family.

[Alf]

No way of finding out, I'll see when I get there. May as well see the rest of this life out first.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Stephen Hawking:

""I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There
is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid
of the dark," he added."

“Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be changed from one form to another.” Albert Einstein.

Energy. It's what makes you LT and me Livia. What happens to it when we die? Einstein says energy cannot be created or destroyed, so what happens to it?

I don't have the answer to this. But then, no one has the answer when we consider whether or not there is an afterlife, there is only anecdotal evidence and personal belief. I believe we continue after we abandon the "old computer" which is our body. Incidentally, I've had lots and lots of computers and transferred the data from one to another so I'm not sure the computer analogy is a good one. Whether or not we are reborn or whether we go somewhere else... I have no answers. What I personally believe though, is this: the people you love never really leave you. You can call this a fairy story, but I can assure you I am not afraid of the dark. I truly believe we go on, but I have no more proof than those who believe that, "when you're dead, you're dead".

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

“Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be changed from one form to another.” Albert Einstein.

Energy. It's what makes you LT and me Livia. What happens to it when we die? Einstein says energy cannot be created or destroyed, so what happens to it?

If you're buried it's worm food if you're cremated it's kindling.

My pondering is stuck on a central point when it comes to the idea that we can meaningfully exist as anything resembling the same "person" after the death of our physical body; we know (for a fact) that brain injury (trauma, tumors) or chemicals (drugs) can completely change a personality (temperament etc.), remove memories, or both... and what are we as a person if not a combination of our personality and our memories? And if something as simple as a head injury can fundamentally alter those things... hothw can it make sense that anything resembling "the person" can exist when the physical body is completely gone. Even if "some form of energy" remains, a "soul" I suppose you could call it, such a huge part of who a person is is bound to the physical structure of their brain, the balance of hormones from one moment to the next that it couldn't possibly be a "personality" resembling the human being that once existed. And if that entity is nothing like them as they were as a person then is it "them" at all?

I guess in short, traumatic brain injury, strokes, personality-altering drugs, lobotomy... these things make me strongly doubt that there is a "fundamental self" that's separate to our physical bodies. Those things wouldn't be able to change that. But they do.

[Kazanne]

I believe there is something more, I dont see the point in us learning all our knowledge for nothing,plus too many miraculous things happen for it to just be coincidental, we are passing this way and will die in our present form but we will be here again imo.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Alf

No way of finding out, I'll see when I get there. May as well see the rest of this life out first.

Its better to believe in God Alf and find out there isnt one than to not to believe and find there IS one So be good !!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you're buried it's worm food if you're cremated it's kindling.

My pondering is stuck on a central point when it comes to the idea that we can meaningfully exist as anything resembling the same "person" after the death of our physical body; we know (for a fact) that brain injury (trauma, tumors) or chemicals (drugs) can completely change a personality (temperament etc.), remove memories, or both... and what are we as a person if not a combination of our personality and our memories? And if something as simple as a head injury can fundamentally alter those things... hothw can it make sense that anything resembling "the person" can exist when the physical body is completely gone. Even if "some form of energy" remains, a "soul" I suppose you could call it, such a huge part of who a person is is bound to the physical structure of their brain, the balance of hormones from one moment to the next that it couldn't possibly be a "personality" resembling the human being that once existed. And if that entity is nothing like them as they were as a person then is it "them" at all?

I guess in short, traumatic brain injury, strokes, personality-altering drugs, lobotomy... these things make me strongly doubt that there is a "fundamental self" that's separate to our physical bodies. Those things wouldn't be able to change that. But they do.

All of that is just your opinion though, isn't it. I mean, even people who've spent a lifetime studying the human brain don't know what large parts of it do, or how large parts of it work, and why. And brain injuries, strokes etc are surely hardware problems, not software problems.

Anyhoo, I'm quite sure in my belief as you are in yours. Neither of us have the evidence to give each other even a glimmer of enlightenment on this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Listen to Neil talk about subjective and objective truth

1.40 onwards

Youtube video

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Listen to Neil talk about subjective and objective truth

1.40 onwards

Youtube video

Again, it's opinion because even he, with his great intelligence, can only guess.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

Again, it's opinion because even he, with his great intelligence, can only guess.

scientific fact is not opinion



If you get your head chopped off by a samurai sword you will be dead

fact

that aint no opinion

when you all off a ladder you hit the ground hard

Gravity isnt an opinion

[Parmy]

I think I nailed it in the op.

[Crimson Dynamo]

only 4 days till afterlife 3

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you're buried it's worm food if you're cremated it's kindling.

My pondering is stuck on a central point when it comes to the idea that we can meaningfully exist as anything resembling the same "person" after the death of our physical body; we know (for a fact) that brain injury (trauma, tumors) or chemicals (drugs) can completely change a personality (temperament etc.), remove memories, or both... and what are we as a person if not a combination of our personality and our memories? And if something as simple as a head injury can fundamentally alter those things... hothw can it make sense that anything resembling "the person" can exist when the physical body is completely gone. Even if "some form of energy" remains, a "soul" I suppose you could call it, such a huge part of who a person is is bound to the physical structure of their brain, the balance of hormones from one moment to the next that it couldn't possibly be a "personality" resembling the human being that once existed. And if that entity is nothing like them as they were as a person then is it "them" at all?

I guess in short, traumatic brain injury, strokes, personality-altering drugs, lobotomy... these things make me strongly doubt that there is a "fundamental self" that's separate to our physical bodies. Those things wouldn't be able to change that. But they do.

I would have thought dna was the basic building block that makes a person who they are. Sure in another life you would have different stimuli leading you down different paths, but if you were formed from the same dna, it would be "you". It basically depends where you draw the line

[Crimson Dynamo]

the only real afterlife is the children you leave behind

I often wonder what aspects of say my great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather's personality was instilled in me?