[user104658]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The girl wasn’t sexually assaulted because it was a gender neutral toilet she was sexually assaulted because of a sicko.

It’s not a rubbish argument at all it just doesn’t fit your narrative that it happened because it was a gender neutral toilet.

You're just saying the same thing again. "people are assaulted because people who do assaults exist and that's that" and suggesting that it means there's no need for safeguarding, that safeguarding is pointless/ineffective or doesn't statistically dramatically reduce rates of assaults.

It's not a matter of opinion, you're just demonstrably and statistically wrong.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

He obviously does Parm

Hopefully hes just winding us up.

[Merry Mockmas]

I think if gender neutral Toilets become more common, then I believe that maybe hiring Security Guards to intervene if a sexual assault situation were to occur wouldn't be the worst idea in the world imo.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think if gender neutral Toilets become more common, then I believe that maybe hiring Security Guards to intervene if a sexual assault situation were to occur wouldn't be the worst idea in the world imo.

The pervs would just become security guards.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The pervs would just become security guards.

That's a possibility.

But if society is pushing towards gender neutral Toilets in the future, having Security Guards there that can intervene if they start hearing screams coming from the Bathroom, is much better than having what's happened in this School in Essex.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That's a possibility.

But if society is pushing towards gender neutral Toilets in the future, having Security Guards there that can intervene if they start hearing screams coming from the Bathroom, is much better than having what's happened in this School in Essex.

But this is exactly why society should push back, this should never have been a thing even if what happened in essex hadnt happened. It shouldnt even be a case of what scenario is better than the other.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think if gender neutral Toilets become more common, then I believe that maybe hiring Security Guards to intervene if a sexual assault situation were to occur wouldn't be the worst idea in the world imo.

"I think if gender neutral Toilets become more common"

there is no economic sense for builders to pander to a tiny fraction of the public who change their mind every month

its never, ever going to happen

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

You're just saying the same thing again. "people are assaulted because people who do assaults exist and that's that" and suggesting that it means there's no need for safeguarding, that safeguarding is pointless/ineffective or doesn't statistically dramatically reduce rates of assaults.

It's not a matter of opinion, you're just demonstrably and statistically wrong.

Cool

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Cool

Indeed, cool Glenn. Too much of an ally to give a crap about statistical assault risks for women and children, if it gets in the way of something he thinks is more important. A real cool dude.

[Good King Glennceslas]

Not interested in blaming a sexual assault purely on the fact that it was a gender neutral toilet and not the unhinged individual that committed the assault.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But this is exactly why society should push back, this should never have been a thing even if what happened in essex hadnt happened. It shouldnt even be a case of what scenario is better than the other.

Sometimes as a society you have to compromise and choose between two options that you don't like, but pick the option that you think is less bad.

Just like the next GE ironically.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"I think if gender neutral Toilets become more common"

there is no economic sense for builders to pander to a tiny fraction of the public who change their mind every month

its never, ever going to happen

I don't really rule anything out from happening anymore.

After 2016 it seems like the world has become similar to Alice In Wonderland in just how unpredictable and strange we can be as a society.

Being honest a gender neutral bathroom isn't even the strangest thing that's happened over the last seven years imo.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Not interested in blaming a sexual assault purely on the fact that it was a gender neutral toilet and not the unhinged individual that committed the assault.

The whole point of safeguarding is being aware that there are unhinged individuals out there who will hurt people, and taking appropriate and sensible precautions to minimise the damage that those unhinged individuals can do.

If people weren't aware that "bad folks want to do bad things" there would be no need for any rules in the first place.

Your stance appears to be, "don't bother with precautions, they don't do anything, if these people want to assault someone they'll find a way anyway".

Which isn't just flippant and dismissive - it's statistically and scientifically verified to simply not be true. Safeguarding practices are evidence-based. It's known FOR A STATISTICAL FACT that safeguarding precautions vastly reduce the rates of attacks and assaults on vulnerable people.

Coming along and saying "Nah I don't like the outcome of that so I'm going to pretend it isn't true" just confirms that your stance is as an ideologue with a preset agenda that takes precedence over any measured facts or figures. It's increasingly obvious that you don't give a stuff about anyone who falls outside your own ideological camp, so it baffles me that you still feel entitled to support from anyone else.

[Candy Annie Cane]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that any assault carried out in a gender neutral bathroom with be committed by a trans person, or a gay person or a gender neutral person. BUT having gender neutral bathrooms means that predators of sex, gender and sexuality can walk unchecked into any bathroom where there could be vulnerable people of any gender, age, sexuality and therefore attacks are far more easily committed.

I personally have no issue with trans women who are living as females using the same bathroom as me (however I rarely use any public bathrooms or changing rooms if I can help it) and am sure there have been occasions when I have and don't even realise I have I agree there does need to be some safeguards in place to protect the vulnerable in society and that does involve some single sex places.

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't think anyone is suggesting that any assault carried out in a gender neutral bathroom with be committed by a trans person, or a gay person or a gender neutral person. BUT having gender neutral bathrooms means that predators of sex, gender and sexuality can walk unchecked into any bathroom where there could be vulnerable people of any gender, age, sexuality and therefore attacks are far more easily committed.

I personally have no issue with trans women who are living as females using the same bathroom as me (however I rarely use any public bathrooms or changing rooms if I can help it) and am sure there have been occasions when I have and don't even realise I have I agree there does need to be some safeguards in place to protect the vulnerable in society and that does involve some single sex places.

That’s great Annie but LT purposely posted it the thread which sole topic is transgender. It’s pretty clear what the intention was like most others on here that seem to fear trans people.

Because I can see another point of view and don’t immediately jump to the conclusion that it’s because of the gender neutral toilets I suddenly agree with sexual assault. I stand by the stance that if someone wants to assault someone they will.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

and they certainly should never exist in schools

[Good King Glennceslas]

Like I say the toilets in schools down this way are simply a corridor of separate cubicles and it seems to work just fine

[Livia]

Are F to M kids demanding they use a communal toilet or the men's? No, of bloody course they're not.

This stuff shouldn't be in schools any more than religious indoctrination should.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Like I say the toilets in schools down this way are simply a corridor of separate cubicles and it seems to work just fine

The ideal solution is fully enclosed cubicles with sink/hand drier, it would be a hug expense though to places that already have toilets set up

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Like I say the toilets in schools down this way are simply a corridor of separate cubicles and it seems to work just fine

I genuinely think you're making this up. No state school in the UK has converted or built an entire corridor into separate standalone gender neutral toilets. They don't have the space and they certainly don't have the budget; and until I see an actual example of schools doing this (a named school that has actually done it, that can be verified) I'm just going to say I think you're flat-out lying to fit a narrative with this vague "Well schools round this way..."

[Good King Glennceslas]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The ideal solution is fully enclosed cubicles with sink/hand drier, it would be a hug expense though to places that already have toilets set up

That’s what we have here.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

That’s what we have here.

Where? In which school or schools?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The ideal solution is fully enclosed cubicles with sink/hand drier, it would be a hug expense though to places that already have toilets set up

UK state schools are getting kids to pay 50p for new notepads if they lose or damage one because the budgets are so tight they can't afford to keep replacing them and Glenn's pedaling a story where they should be (in fact, are already!) carrying out extensive building and plumbing renovation works so that people can go into a toilet that fits their gender self ID.

Living in an actual fantasy world.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

That’s what we have here.

That's great then, most places over here wouldn't though, they'd be those big rooms with sinks/hand driers etc in the communal area and then a row of stall type cubicles with open ceilings and ends

[user104658]

My daughter's high school has what amounts to gender neutral toilets available because they have always existed - there are 4 or 5 standalone disabled toilets scattered around the school that are just single toilets, that have always been there but in recent years are free to use for everyone, not just people with disabilities. They're gender-neutral by default because it's just one toilet.

My daughter does tend to use them, but that's because the student toilets are full of chavvy kids vaping and beating the **** out of each other, so a separate issue really.

The point I suppose is that because these facilities already exist (and should exist in every school, because disabled toilet access is a legal requirement) there is literally no need for gender neutral communal toilets. It's pandering to an ideal of "equality" that actually has no practical necessity whatsoever, at the expense of kids safety.

Now again as above - there's a totally separate debate to be had about communal toilets in general because "in a world without budget limitations" I think every public toilet including school toilets should be a standalone unit, for privacy and safety. It makes the whole gender debate around toilets moot and really is the ideal. In schools as I said above kids are already at very real risk of bullying and assault in the bathrooms unfortunately. Throwing a very real increased risk of opportunistic sexual assault into the mix for no particularly good reason is just madness.

Glenn has perpetrators of sexual assault painted as greasy, trenchcoat-wearing flashers who have some sort of life committment to carrying out an assault and will plan it and do it regardless. This is NOT the nature of the VAST majority of sexual assault, whatsoever. These assaults are carried out opportunistically, spontaneously, by people who you'd never have thought "sex predator!" about in a million years. Teenage boys are a MESS when it comes to understanding consent and appropriate behaviour at the best of times, let alone in mixed toilets with teenage girls. And that's always been the case. You also now have the Tates of the world making things 10x worse.