[Mystic Mock]

Basically if TV Shows for the foreseeable future had to give up one attribute out of good storytelling or good character development, which one would you sacrifice?

For starters to any of the American Writers that may be die hard BBUK stans on this Forum (tumbleweed rolls) it's basically either writing a compelling narrative with worldbuilding and lore versus great character interactions, great individual personalities, and just general iconic status about the individual character in question.

Which would you rather lose?

Obviously both are really important to any work of fiction (or at least they should be) but if I was told that I had to sacrifice one over the other, then I would sacrifice having really standout characters because ultimately TV Shows are a story medium, if you're wanting me to watch every episode, then I personally prefer having an average cast with a really strong plot over a really well developed cast, but the plot goes nowhere, as essentially that's just wasting my time.

And god help me when I've personally seen Shows be popular that suck at both.

[Nicky91]

Good Plot


tbh in terms of characters, i myself always want strong diversity, i mean would be boring if all characters had same ethnic, class, sexuality backgrounds

[Zizu]

Has to be both for me


Fabulous example is the series 1883 !!

Spoiler:

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[James]

Both but some shows I've watched are all plot and little story so that.

[joeysteele]

They're both important overall.

However for me a good plot you can find yourself interested in I'd go for.
If it's a really poor storyline then no matter the character the project would be more weakened.

[user104658]

You can't have good worldbuilding without good characters, and vice versa... there's no way to answer the question IMO. I would say though, I'd rather have a show with great characters & worldbuilding that eventually goes off the rails plot-wise (e.g. Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The 100) than something with a clear narrative direction, but characters you just can't bring yourself to give a stuff about (harder to give examples, but "Another Life" on Netflix is a recent example: I actually thought the idea behind it was great and the stuff it established, but if they'd all died at the end I would not have batted an eye).

Edited to add even more shows that "lost the plot". I can think of so many .

[Beso]

If the characters ain't doing it instantly then I'm not even going to look at the plot.

So I guess its good characters for me...I mean, people watch porn fgs.

[Ammi]

…I think for a series, I would say both have equal importance …?…it’s so much more of an investment of time than a movie would be …Happy Valley is a series that for me had a perfect blend of layered characters plus a gripping plot…hmmm, Mare Easttown was another great one that showed that perfect blend and they were both dependants on each other, I would say…

…The Whale/movie, though…is all set in one confined location and it’s more dependant on characters, but obviously all of these things have plots as well because character’s layered are built on plot…/storyline/back stories etc…but a movie doesn’t generally involve so much investment of time so it can more ‘make a choice’….

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

You can't have good worldbuilding without good characters, and vice versa... there's no way to answer the question IMO. I would say though, I'd rather have a show with great characters & worldbuilding that eventually goes off the rails plot-wise (e.g. Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The 100) than something with a clear narrative direction, but characters you just can't bring yourself to give a stuff about (harder to give examples, but "Another Life" on Netflix is a recent example: I actually thought the idea behind it was great and the stuff it established, but if they'd all died at the end I would not have batted an eye).

Edited to add even more shows that "lost the plot". I can think of so many .

Ozark? I only watched a few episodes but stopped watching because I couldn't bring myself to like any of the characters. There was another one I'm trying to remember but I remember thinking I wouldn't care if they all died

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ozark? I only watched a few episodes but stopped watching because I couldn't bring myself to like any of the characters. There was another one I'm trying to remember but I remember thinking I wouldn't care if they all died

…was that, that Titanic mini series a while ago…?…you witch, you….

[Ammi]

…I couldn’t gel with Ozark either..but I think that’s because it felt too Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul-ish…but with a cast of characters who were strangers …

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…was that, that Titanic mini series a while ago…?…you witch, you….

No, damn it though, it's annoying me now

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ozark? I only watched a few episodes but stopped watching because I couldn't bring myself to like any of the characters. There was another one I'm trying to remember but I remember thinking I wouldn't care if they all died

Yeah that's another good example - we watched I think two episodes. The premise was good but it was trying to be like Breaking Bad except...the characters just weren't engaging at all so, as you say, there was no real threat/tension because I just didn't care what happened.

Like in Breaking Bad everyone is excellent and the show is just immaculately made but, at the end of the day, it's the Walter/Jessie relationship and the chemistry between those actors that makes it unmissable viewing.

[Z]

I think LOST is a show that had a great plot (well, to begin with...) and fairly terrible characters - they would give flashbacks to past lives but everything was so heavy that it was like, how can I have any sense of connection to them if all I'm seeing is serious traumatic back stories with absolutely no joy? I dunno. I loved it though, so I think I'd pick a good plot over good characters. Friends had great characters but they were spinning the wheels for years so the overall plot was non-existent wasn't it?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Z

I think LOST is a show that had a great plot (well, to begin with...) and fairly terrible characters - they would give flashbacks to past lives but everything was so heavy that it was like, how can I have any sense of connection to them if all I'm seeing is serious traumatic back stories with absolutely no joy? I dunno. I loved it though, so I think I'd pick a good plot over good characters. Friends had great characters but they were spinning the wheels for years so the overall plot was non-existent wasn't it?

The thing with Lost is that it was a bit before it's time TBH... as a show with full-length seasons I think you're right it could have done with some lighter character episodes - however I think ultimately it's more that the show would have been better as a modern "streaming style" plot-heavy show but with 10 to 12 episode long seasons, rather than 20+ episodes per season.

That said, the week-to-week format and the community that built up around solving the mysteries was a huge part of it, so I'd probably still have it as a week-to-week show rather than a season-at-once binge show.

It's a tough one really. There's a lot of filler in a show that isn't really set up for filler. But as I said it was a trailblazer... full 20 - 25 episode seasons was very much the norm for TV shows back when Lost first aired.

[Mystic Mock]

^Tbf there's a lot of filler episodes in the streaming Shows as well.

I mean thinking back on some of them, they make Lost's Tattoo episode look half decent.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Both but if I have to choose good plot. The plot elevates the characters I think