[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Look, that's obviously awful for the female officer and the process for investigation should be the same for whomever was the perpetrator and the punishment the same, but sorry I don't see why a trans woman should be put anywhere other than a women's prison... If a cis man was guilty of raping various men, he would still be put in a male prison, he wouldn't be put in a female prison to minimise risk of him assaulting other inmates.

But I have to ask, why are you linking the crime with their trans-ness? Why isn't it just the case they commit such a horrible crime because they were a criminal? Why are you linking it with their identity? Can't trans women be criminals just because, just like the cis women?

This always happens with minorities - a minority commits a crime and it's used as an illustration in an argument to try and justify something. Bad people are bad people.

What if it was a lesbian cis woman who sexually assaulted the prison officer? Would you ask for all lesbians to be put into another prison?

It wasn't a female officer who was assaulted, shows how much care you put into reading the article, it was a female inmate, and she was assaulted by a transwoman who had previous convictions for sexual assault, so in my view there is no way 'she' should have been in a female prison, is that normal for actual transwomen to be convicted of sexual assault??????? because personally I don't think it is, but clearly you are okay with it, if a lesbian was convicted of sexual assault I dont think she would be in the general population of inmates do you?

[BBXX]

Apologies I misread female prisoner with female prison officer.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's vile but sadly not surprising

Thank god that it wasn't the majority of men.

Small mercies and all that.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Women aren't real people. They are only there to keep males safe and comfortable.

Weird, I thought our role was the latter...

[Vicky.]

sorry I don't see why a trans woman should be put anywhere other than a women's prison.

at which stage of transition? Full transition, self ID, other?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

at which stage of transition? Full transition, self ID, other?

I don't know if there is an easy, cut and dry answer to this - I can totally understand if someone who has been living as a man, commits a crime and then states they identify as a woman shouldn't be placed in a women's prison, and I don't deny that Self-ID creates a myriad of issues but I also think we need to be careful not to make the lives of legitimate trans people even more difficult than they already are because of a few non-trans people who take advantage of a loophole.

In my opinion, someone who has been living as a woman for a long time and is yet to have surgery, for example, should still be placed in a woman's prison.

The prison system is a difficult one, and I think (there might be?) different wings for different crimes - sexual assault for example, should be separated from those who are in there for things like fraud and petty crime and that goes for men and women prisons. If a cis man or a cis woman has sexually assaulted someone of the same gender as them, they would still be put in the prison of the gender they identify as, housed alongside the same gender as the victim of their crime.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I don't know if there is an easy, cut and dry answer to this - I can totally understand if someone who has been living as a man, commits a crime and then states they identify as a woman shouldn't be placed in a women's prison, and I don't deny that Self-ID creates a myriad of issues but I also think we need to be careful not to make the lives of legitimate trans people even more difficult than they already are because of a few non-trans people who take advantage of a loophole.

In my opinion, someone who has been living as a woman for a long time and is yet to have surgery, for example, should still be placed in a woman's prison.

The prison system is a difficult one, and I think (there might be?) different wings for different crimes - sexual assault for example, should be separated from those who are in there for things like fraud and petty crime and that goes for men and women prisons. If a cis man or a cis woman has sexually assaulted someone of the same gender as them, they would still be put in the prison of the gender they identify as, housed alongside the same gender as the victim of their crime.

Do you also think transmen should go to male prisons?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Do you also think transmen should go to male prisons?

Yes. My viewpoint is the same for Trans men and trans women across the board.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes. My viewpoint is the same for Trans men and trans women across the board.

Fair enough. I would think transmen would be at HUGE risk in a male prison.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Fair enough. I would think transmen would be at HUGE risk in a male prison.

It's tough, perhaps they are. But that person wants to live as a man, and so cannot just pick and choose which bits of life they want to live as a man to suit. My point has continuously been, while touching on safety as a main factor, respecting a trans persons right to live as they identify, in the same way cis people do. It's not been doing whatever we can to keep trans people safe at all times.

Sometimes letting a trans person live life as the gender they identify as will ensure a they are safer and sometimes it might put them in more harm, but any trans person will tell you the fear of potential harm they might face by living as a trans man (in this specific case) far outweighs having to live life in the wrong body. They'd rather be potentially unsafe than suicidal.

[Cherry Christmas]

Nicola Sturgeon has argued the law on the definition of a woman may need to be changed to accommodate trans people after complaining that a Supreme Court ruling had been “massively over-interpreted”.

The former first minister did not dispute that the court was correct that the definition of woman in the Equality Act 2010 was based on biological sex.

Nicola Sturgeon has argued the law on the definition of a woman may need to be changed to accommodate trans people after complaining that a Supreme Court ruling had been “massively over-interpreted”.

The former first minister did not dispute that the court was correct that the definition of woman in the Equality Act 2010 was based on biological sex.

But she argued that this could be changed to give trans people access to female-only areas as it was for politicians “to decide what the law should be or has to be.”

She said the “law has to change” if trans people’s lives become “almost impossible” and cited comments from Baroness Hale, the first female president of the Supreme Court.

Lady Hale said last week that “there’s nothing in that judgment that says that you can’t have gender neutral loos” and Ms Sturgeon argued that this showed that the ruling had been “massively over-interpreted.”

The former SNP leader made the comments this weekend at the How the Light Gets In festival in Hay-on-Wye, Wales, adding that she had received “more misogynistic abuse as a result of this issue than any other”.

Ms Sturgeon said this was “ironic” but pledged to “always” be an ally to trans people “no matter how difficult that might be.”

But For Women Scotland (FWS), the feminist group that won the Supreme Court case against the SNP government, said the real misreading of the law had come from “trans activists who have spun the most outrageous interpretations.”

Ms Sturgeon’s government tried the Gender Recognition Reform (GRR) Bill, which would have allowed biological men to change legal gender by simply signing a declaration.

The legislation was passed at Holyrood but vetoed by the UK Government over concerns it undermined women’s safe spaces.

But it has emerged that swathes of Scotland’s public sector adopted self-ID all the same, allowing trans people access to female toilets and changing rooms.

Experts have warned these practices will have to be scrapped following the Supreme Court’s ruling in April that the definition of a woman is based on biological sex, and does not include trans women.


The brass neck of this woman who is basically a thief, defies belief

[Vicky.]

there’s nothing in that judgment that says that you can’t have gender neutral loos”

No there isn't, this can be done. What can't be done is it being labelled for women while being mixed sex. Places can chose to have 'gender neutral' if they like

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No there isn't, this can be done. What can't be done is it being labelled for women while being mixed sex. Places can chose to have 'gender neutral' if they like

The fixation on toilets is pretty ridiculous and designed to demean

Its all about bathrooms they cry when it really isn't

[Vicky.]

I agree, making it all about toilets is ridiculous

[BBXX]

It’s probably because it will affect them most frequently. Not many people are joining professional sports teams or seeking help refuge. Public loos are used often by almost everyone.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It’s probably because it will affect them most frequently. Not many people are joining professional sports teams or seeking help refuge. Public loos are used often by almost everyone.

There was a lot of sports objections

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It’s probably because it will affect them most frequently. Not many people are joining professional sports teams or seeking help refuge. Public loos are used often by almost everyone.

Alot of transwomen have already said they will ignore the new law and continue to use the ladies....its not the big deal that is being made out, employment, changing rooms, sports, refuges, swimming pools....no mention

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The fixation on toilets is pretty ridiculous and designed to demean

Its all about bathrooms they cry when it really isn't

To be fair, if one concedes on bathroom spaces, they pretty much have to concede on most—if not all—others... because it's the most private area where most of us are going to share a space as the same sex. Locker rooms I would put into the same category of arguments.

It would introduce a lot of awkwardness when it comes to areas of social life where maybe an organization or institutions would like to allow transwomen... for example, girls camp... little known fact, but in some areas schools send their kids off for about a week in 5th grade... but imagine they can't share bedroom/bathroom spaces where almost all the female social skills and experiences really solidify at that age. Maybe they can't due to the potential of violating the larger law. I can see where there is less room for compromise without a clearer picture of where integration is encouraged and where lines are best drawn...

So I think legislation could and should strive to go further to outline exactly how we intend to integrate trans-folk into an increasingly complex society instead of walking around it and allowing for this weird unhappy middle where no one has any really clue where it falls... that will cause a lot of problems down the line and it's causing problems now, imo.

[arista]

Speaking On BBCnewsHD to Laura
says she will not return to the UK.


As it's not safe if she has to go into a men's loo.

She fears someone will Die


A Former Judge. (Dr. Victoria McCloud)

A Special One-On-One Newscast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qw2149yelo

[Zizu]

Yawn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Holly Christmas]

Dear God!

[arista]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...0f2ky/newscast

Not Yet on Video

It is in on Audio Only.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0lh0c9r

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Bye then luv

[Father Chris Mouse]

Will she go to a nice safe Islamic country, or Devil Trump's America?

[arista]

She/He
is helping others leave the UK.

She stated if she went into a pub,
in a men's loo,
she said she could be killed
or raped.