[Parmy]

Remember the "can you house a Ukrainian" days. Well he cane over with his wife, set up home. Worked, paid tax, had a beautiful baby girl.


Now all 3 being sent packing because of a visa issue that nobody at the home office can advise him on, they just push him from pillar to post.. passing the buck to other departments.


Reallly sad, and I admit I had a lump in my throat saying goodbye earlier. This government is shameless.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Parmy

Remember the "can you house a Ukrainian" days. Well he cane over with his wife, set up home. Worked, paid tax, had a beautiful baby girl.


Now all 3 being sent packing because of a visa issue that nobody at the home office can advise him on, they just push him from pillar to post.. passing the buck to other departments.


Reallly sad, and I admit I had a lump in my throat saying goodbye earlier. This government is shameless.

Has he been to the press? I would advise him to do so.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Has he been to the press? I would advise him to do so.

I wont see him again to ask.

[Dogeatdog]

Originally Posted by Parmy

Remember the "can you house a Ukrainian" days. Well he cane over with his wife, set up home. Worked, paid tax, had a beautiful baby girl.


Now all 3 being sent packing because of a visa issue that nobody at the home office can advise him on, they just push him from pillar to post.. passing the buck to other departments.


Reallly sad, and I admit I had a lump in my throat saying goodbye earlier. This government is shameless.

That’s such a shame. It’s seems like one of those classic cases where you work hard for something, do everything legitimate, by the book, being honest and you still end up getting penalised for it.

[Glenn.]

The moment it’s a real family, a real kid, a real person you’ve met, it stops being political and starts being human. And that’s the hypocrisy of it, empathy only kicks in when people are forced to look someone in the eye. The rest of the time they’re happy to cheer on policies that do exactly this to thousands of others they’ll never see.

[Parmy]

As if today wasn't bad enough.



The youngest of 4 brothers, sent to the UK with his new wife at the tender age of 21, his father and brothers on their way to war. Sent away to uphold the family name if nobody else is left in Ukraine to do so. Does not compare to people fleeing crimes committed in islamic ran hell holes.

The UK government don't care much about the Iranians committing the crime of public protest in islamic ran Iran..so why care so much about people fleeing anything that's a crime in any islamic ran country.

[Glenn.]

So some refugees are valid and others aren’t, depending on whether you personally like their country?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The moment it’s a real family, a real kid, a real person you’ve met, it stops being political and starts being human. And that’s the hypocrisy of it, empathy only kicks in when people are forced to look someone in the eye. The rest of the time they’re happy to cheer on policies that do exactly this to thousands of others they’ll never see.

The difference being the Ukranians were vetted and came in on work visas and it was mainly women and children who got Visas, they are not illegal, they are not possible criminals and men did not enmass leave Ukraine ...its a shame they cant do similar for other war torn countries but then they are mainly not European countries and have countries nearby who could possibly take them in the first instance

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The difference being the Ukranians were vetted and came in on work visas and it was mainly women and children who got Visas, they are not illegal, they are not possible criminals and men did not enmass leave Ukraine ...its a shame they cant do similar for other war torn countries but then they are mainly not European countries and have countries nearby who could possibly take them in the first instance

You’re being careful with how you say it, but the meaning is clear. You’re more comfortable with Ukrainians because they’re European and you assume they’re safer. People from other countries get treated as suspicious by default.

The UK could vet people from anywhere if it wanted to. It chooses not to. So this isn’t really about how the system works, it’s about who you feel comfortable letting in.

When you strip it back, you’re just ranking refugees based on where they’re from. That’s the reality of it.

[Livia]

In 2024 less than 900 Ukranians applied for asylum in the UK because of the war with the Russians. In the same year 10,500+ Pakistanis, 8,500+ Afghans, 8000+ Iranians and 7000+ Syrians sought asylum.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The difference being the Ukranians were vetted and came in on work visas and it was mainly women and children who got Visas, they are not illegal, they are not possible criminals and men did not enmass leave Ukraine ...its a shame they cant do similar for other war torn countries but then they are mainly not European countries and have countries nearby who could possibly take them in the first instance

Excellent !!

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Livia

In 2024 less than 900 Ukranians applied for asylum in the UK because of the war with the Russians. In the same year 10,500+ Pakistanis, 8,500+ Afghans, 8000+ Iranians and 7000+ Syrians sought asylum.

Those numbers don’t show who’s more genuine. They just show who the UK made it easy for, and who it didn’t. You’re comparing two completely different systems and pretending it means something about the people. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t.

[bots]

Most Ukranians I know want to go back to Ukraine. Most other asylum seekers don't want to return to their home country. That is obviously going to affect numbers

[BBXX]

Firstly @Parmy, sorry to hear about your friend. That really sucks and I hope they somehow find a way to reverse it or return as soon as possible.

Comparing Ukrainians to those coming from Middle Eastern countries for example is moot but let's do it anyway.

We [rightly] set up bespoke, safe and legal routes for the Ukrainian people to flee here, which is not something granted to other countries. Obviously to seek asylum they have to get to land first and the only way to do that without a visa - often which is impossible for those needing to seek asylum - is crossing the channel The Ukrainian people had the ability to come here under specially set-up routes - they also benefitted from a humanitarian displacement scheme - they had the ability to work straight away, those who did not work received Universal Credit and if they were eligible, regular benefits, and finally and most importantly, men were literally banned from leaving Ukraine at one time.

Yes, most of those coming over on small boats are men but that's because they have the make that journey. If there were easy legal routes like there was for Ukrainians, it would likely be different. But there isn't, there is a horrific journey and then placement in centres which lack integration, creates isolation, with huge delays on ability to work 12 months, and very little in the way of financial help (Ł10 a week per person or Ł50 a week if your centre has food). All of that is why women and children stay where they are for the time being because why would you put your wife and kid through that initially?

While I totally understand large cohorts of men coming into the country is unnerving, the idea they "could be criminals" is ignoring a huge caveat, in that once adjusted for situational circumstances, the crime rates for those coming over on small boats are no higher than any British-born man. That is to say the policies surrounding those who land here create an environment where crime festers regardless of nationality. People who cannot work, receive little aid or face financial hardship, are housed in places that do not allow for integration or to set up home are all more likely to turn to crime. That isn't even considering the prejudice that these asylum seekers have to contend with, the media rhetoric around their demographic and the fact they're more likely to be a victim of violent crime than commit one.

If we treated those seeking asylum from Syrian or Afghanistan or Pakistan, etc... like we did Ukraine, the picture would be different. There were studies in Germany that showed refugee inflows do not systematically increase crime rates beyond what you'd expect from demographic difference -- such as age and sex -- so a young German man was no less likely to commit a crime than a young Syrian man even if both were far more likely to commit crime than a young woman.

So it's the policies that are the issue, not the geographical demographic of asylum seekers or refugees, and with more support things would be different. But the rhetoric is that we don't want to give more support, of course. We want to give less, or none. We didn't mind giving the Ukrainian asylum seekers access to benefits, or those they were staying with Ł350 a month, but we resent shelling out Ł9.95 a week to a Syrian man who is homed in a communal centre only for people to stand outside with banners telling him to go home. Why?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Those numbers don’t show who’s more genuine. They just show who the UK made it easy for, and who it didn’t. You’re comparing two completely different systems and pretending it means something about the people. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t.

Also those numbers are cherry picked to ****.

Total arrivals between 2022-2025:
🇺🇦 Ukraine ~220,000+ Arrivals via special legal visa routes (not asylum - because they didn't need to seek it because we created bespoke routes for them to come here)
🇵🇰 Pakistan ~11,000+ (year to Jun 2025) Asylum claimants
🇦🇫 Afghanistan ~8,000+ (year to Jun 2025) Asylum claimants
🇮🇷 Iran ~7,700+ (year to Jun 2025) Asylum claimants
🇸🇾 Syria ~5,200+ (year to Jun 2025) Asylum claimants

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Firstly @Parmy, sorry to hear about your friend. That really sucks and I hope they somehow find a way to reverse it or return as soon as possible.

Comparing Ukrainians to those coming from Middle Eastern countries for example is moot but let's do it anyway.

We [rightly] set up bespoke, safe and legal routes for the Ukrainian people to flee here, which is not something granted to other countries. Obviously to seek asylum they have to get to land first and the only way to do that without a visa - often which is impossible for those needing to seek asylum - is crossing the channel The Ukrainian people had the ability to come here under specially set-up routes - they also benefitted from a humanitarian displacement scheme - they had the ability to work straight away, those who did not work received Universal Credit and if they were eligible, regular benefits, and finally and most importantly, men were literally banned from leaving Ukraine at one time.

Yes, most of those coming over on small boats are men but that's because they have the make that journey. If there were easy legal routes like there was for Ukrainians, it would likely be different. But there isn't, there is a horrific journey and then placement in centres which lack integration, creates isolation, with huge delays on ability to work 12 months, and very little in the way of financial help (Ł10 a week per person or Ł50 a week if your centre has food). All of that is why women and children stay where they are for the time being because why would you put your wife and kid through that initially?

While I totally understand large cohorts of men coming into the country is unnerving, the idea they "could be criminals" is ignoring a huge caveat, in that once adjusted for situational circumstances, the crime rates for those coming over on small boats are no higher than any British-born man. That is to say the policies surrounding those who land here create an environment where crime festers regardless of nationality. People who cannot work, receive little aid or face financial hardship, are housed in places that do not allow for integration or to set up home are all more likely to turn to crime. That isn't even considering the prejudice that these asylum seekers have to contend with, the media rhetoric around their demographic and the fact they're more likely to be a victim of violent crime than commit one.

If we treated those seeking asylum from Syrian or Afghanistan or Pakistan, etc... like we did Ukraine, the picture would be different. There were studies in Germany that showed refugee inflows do not systematically increase crime rates beyond what you'd expect from demographic difference -- such as age and sex -- so a young German man was no less likely to commit a crime than a young Syrian man even if both were far more likely to commit crime than a young woman.

So it's the policies that are the issue, not the geographical demographic of asylum seekers or refugees, and with more support things would be different. But the rhetoric is that we don't want to give more support, of course. We want to give less, or none. We didn't mind giving the Ukrainian asylum seekers access to benefits, or those they were staying with Ł350 a month, but we resent shelling out Ł9.95 a week to a Syrian man who is homed in a communal centre only for people to stand outside with banners telling him to go home. Why?

Thanks for caring.


But your post is ridiculous and not thought out well.


You seem to be saying these young men are courageous for making the perilous journey alone first..leaving their wives and kids at home in the supposed to dangerous to live in country they are fleeing..that doesn't sound courageous to me...leaving them their to then have them travel the same journey alone to cone to you....or are they just going to leave them their languishing awaiting the inevitable in the so called war torn country they fleeed persecution from????


Also you mention these places they get housed in, that doesn't provide the chance to integrate...that's simply not true, large groups of these young men can be found in the surrounding parks and town centres integrating with many different nationalities...they also have commmunual eating areas...so they do integrate..


You also say it's the conditions at fault for making them turn to crime? I wonder then, why does these conditions make them commit sexual crimes... is that simply the victims fault for saying no to these terrtibly ill treated young men? who's wives and kids they left in danger will be surprised to find in jail once they have made the jouney

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You’re being careful with how you say it, but the meaning is clear. You’re more comfortable with Ukrainians because they’re European and you assume they’re safer. People from other countries get treated as suspicious by default.

The UK could vet people from anywhere if it wanted to. It chooses not to. So this isn’t really about how the system works, it’s about who you feel comfortable letting in.

When you strip it back, you’re just ranking refugees based on where they’re from. That’s the reality of it.

Im not being careful about anything just stating fact, say what you like putting groups of young men together from different cultures with no support, no right to work into communities does not end well, of course the UK should support another European country at war, do you disagree?

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Im not being careful about anything just stating fact, say what you like putting groups of young men together from different cultures with no support, no right to work into communities does not end well, of course the UK should support another European country at war, do you disagree?

You are choosing which facts matter. Saying young men from different cultures is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Putting any group of people in limbo, no right to work, no money, no stability, no future, is what doesn’t end well. That’s a policy failure, not a culture problem. Do that to British lads and you’d get the same outcome.

And no one’s saying don’t support Ukraine. Of course we should. The point is we can support them and not treat everyone else like a problem to be managed. It’s not either/or unless you decide it is.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Parmy

Thanks for caring.


But your post is ridiculous and not thought out well.


You seem to be saying these young men are courageous for making the perilous journey alone first..leaving their wives and kids at home in the supposed to dangerous to live in country they are fleeing..that doesn't sound courageous to me...leaving them their to then have them travel the same journey alone to cone to you....or are they just going to leave them their languishing awaiting the inevitable in the so called war torn country they fleeed persecution from????

This is the part that always bemuses me

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Parmy

You seem to be saying these young men are courageous for making the perilous journey alone first..leaving their wives and kids at home in the supposed to dangerous to live in country they are fleeing..that doesn't sound courageous to me...leaving them their to then have them travel the same journey alone to cone to you....or are they just going to leave them their languishing awaiting the inevitable in the so called war torn country they fleeed persecution from????

I didn't say courageous, but making the channel crossing is not safe. The initial journey will to be the journey the families make afterwards... ? Once refugee status has been granted, families used to be able to easily join safely and legally. This was suspended in September but will reignite later this year with stricter rules. The idea is to build a life here in the interim to allow family to follow.

Also you mention these places they get housed in, that doesn't provide the chance to integrate...that's simply not true, large groups of these young men can be found in the surrounding parks and town centres integrating with many different nationalities...they also have commmunual eating areas...so they do integrate.

Sitting in a park doesn't equal integration. They're not able to work and they're not able to be housed in a home allowing for more organic day-to-day integration.

You also say it's the conditions at fault for making them turn to crime? I wonder then, why does these conditions make them commit sexual crimes... is that simply the victims fault for saying no to these terrtibly ill treated young men? who's wives and kids they left in danger will be surprised to find in jail once they have made the jouney

Your reading comprehension needs work. I'm stating a fact - the conditions in which they live under - time and time again, regardless of immigration status or culture - corresponds with higher crime rate. I'm not blaming any victim of said crime, and it's not an excuse, it's just what the crime states show.

What I am saying is that they're not committing crimes because of their immigration status or because of where they originated from, like so many like to try and make out, but because of the situation they live in, situations created by our own policies. It's a reason for improving asylum policies, not a reason to ban them from entering the country.

In the same way British-born men who do not work, live with little support, are ostracised from society and face hardship are more likely to commit crime than someone who is in employment, in financially stable and has a support network is a reason to improve support for those people rather than continue to shun them.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You are choosing which facts matter. Saying young men from different cultures is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Putting any group of people in limbo, no right to work, no money, no stability, no future, is what doesn’t end well. That’s a policy failure, not a culture problem. Do that to British lads and you’d get the same outcome.

And no one’s saying don’t support Ukraine. Of course we should. The point is we can support them and not treat everyone else like a problem to be managed. It’s not either/or unless you decide it is.

I dont decide anything, I am just offering an opinion, these are government decisions, the government needs to get its act together and sort it out, if World War 3 broke out tomorrow, do you think boatloads of unvetted men would be rocking up on our shores....no they wouldn't

[Parmy]

Sitting in a park doesn't equal integration. They're not able to work and they're not able to be housed in a home allowing for more organic day-to-day integration.




I've posted enough videos of immigrants housed in luxury flats for that not to be true.

[Parmy]

What I am saying is that they're not committing crimes because of their immigration status or because of where they originated from, like so many like to try and make out, but because of the situation they live in, situations created by our own policies. It's a reason for improving asylum policies, not a reason to ban them from entering the country.




Give us better facilities and we will stop taking your girls.....Sorry, but that's not how it works.

[Parmy]

didn't say courageous, but making the channel crossing is not safe. The initial journey will to be the journey the families make afterwards... ? Once refugee status has been granted, families used to be able to easily join safely and legally. This was suspended in September but will reignite later this year with stricter rules. The idea is to build a life here in the interim to allow family to follow



You really have been sucked in havnt you..

[Parmy]

A quick question....




Out of the hundreds and hundreds of thousands immigrants in the last 6 years.....where are alll the single no kids, females looking for a safer home?