[Parmy]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Firstly @Parmy, sorry to hear about your friend. That really sucks and I hope they somehow find a way to reverse it or return as soon as possible.

Comparing Ukrainians to those coming from Middle Eastern countries for example is moot but let's do it anyway.

We [rightly] set up bespoke, safe and legal routes for the Ukrainian people to flee here, which is not something granted to other countries. Obviously to seek asylum they have to get to land first and the only way to do that without a visa - often which is impossible for those needing to seek asylum - is crossing the channel The Ukrainian people had the ability to come here under specially set-up routes - they also benefitted from a humanitarian displacement scheme - they had the ability to work straight away, those who did not work received Universal Credit and if they were eligible, regular benefits, and finally and most importantly, men were literally banned from leaving Ukraine at one time.

Yes, most of those coming over on small boats are men but that's because they have the make that journey. If there were easy legal routes like there was for Ukrainians, it would likely be different. But there isn't, there is a horrific journey and then placement in centres which lack integration, creates isolation, with huge delays on ability to work 12 months, and very little in the way of financial help (£10 a week per person or £50 a week if your centre has food). All of that is why women and children stay where they are for the time being because why would you put your wife and kid through that initially?

While I totally understand large cohorts of men coming into the country is unnerving, the idea they "could be criminals" is ignoring a huge caveat, in that once adjusted for situational circumstances, the crime rates for those coming over on small boats are no higher than any British-born man. That is to say the policies surrounding those who land here create an environment where crime festers regardless of nationality. People who cannot work, receive little aid or face financial hardship, are housed in places that do not allow for integration or to set up home are all more likely to turn to crime. That isn't even considering the prejudice that these asylum seekers have to contend with, the media rhetoric around their demographic and the fact they're more likely to be a victim of violent crime than commit one.

If we treated those seeking asylum from Syrian or Afghanistan or Pakistan, etc... like we did Ukraine, the picture would be different. There were studies in Germany that showed refugee inflows do not systematically increase crime rates beyond what you'd expect from demographic difference -- such as age and sex -- so a young German man was no less likely to commit a crime than a young Syrian man even if both were far more likely to commit crime than a young woman.

So it's the policies that are the issue, not the geographical demographic of asylum seekers or refugees, and with more support things would be different. But the rhetoric is that we don't want to give more support, of course. We want to give less, or none. We didn't mind giving the Ukrainian asylum seekers access to benefits, or those they were staying with £350 a month, but we resent shelling out £9.95 a week to a Syrian man who is homed in a communal centre only for people to stand outside with banners telling him to go home. Why?

Thanks for caring.


But your post is ridiculous and not thought out well.


You seem to be saying these young men are courageous for making the perilous journey alone first..leaving their wives and kids at home in the supposed to dangerous to live in country they are fleeing..that doesn't sound courageous to me...leaving them their to then have them travel the same journey alone to cone to you....or are they just going to leave them their languishing awaiting the inevitable in the so called war torn country they fleeed persecution from????


Also you mention these places they get housed in, that doesn't provide the chance to integrate...that's simply not true, large groups of these young men can be found in the surrounding parks and town centres integrating with many different nationalities...they also have commmunual eating areas...so they do integrate..


You also say it's the conditions at fault for making them turn to crime? I wonder then, why does these conditions make them commit sexual crimes... is that simply the victims fault for saying no to these terrtibly ill treated young men? who's wives and kids they left in danger will be surprised to find in jail once they have made the jouney