[bots]

the simple thing is it doesn't matter if a discussion point is more nuanced than it appears on the surface. If enough people are of the opinion that immigration is bad any government or organisation would be foolish to ignore it. They would be even more foolish if they don't demonstrate what they are doing to fix it. It brought the tories down and it will bring labour down. We all know it and yet labour continue to bury their heads in the sand

[Livia]

I agree with @bots.

The population has risen by 10 million in the last 20 years. But the the infrastructure hasn't grown, there are not more ambulances, hospitals or police officers. we're struggling for housing we have a huge homeless population but we watch as foreigners are housed over our own people. We have the highest energy bills in Europe because of a nutty green agenda. It is just not sustainable. Of course we should take the most vulnerable refugees as we always have, but they should consist mainly of families. Other than that, immigration needs to be halted, our own people should be trained for jobs that we currently import people for and industries such as adult social care needs to be made more financially attractive with good career progression. People will vote for a government they think will play with a straight bat and that's not Labour or the Tories anymore.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Starmer is importing votes for 2029. Just like Spain just did and What Biden tried to do

[Livia]

So none of that ^^^ will lead to ordinary Spaniards becoming disgruntled as their country is handed over to illegal foreigners in order to save the Leftists?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

No one’s denying that. The difference is here it’s illegal, it’s prosecuted, and it isn’t backed by the state or by social pressure. In places people flee from, forced marriage, honour violence, blasphemy laws and persecution are built into the system or openly tolerated. That’s the bit you keep skipping over.

Saying it happens here too isn’t some clever gotcha. If that was the standard, no one would ever qualify for asylum anywhere because no country is perfect.

Alot of this is tolerated within their own communities in the UK, and you are being naive if you think it isn't

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Alot of this is tolerated within their own communities in the UK, and you are being naive if you think it isn't

If it was tolerated here, it wouldn’t be illegal and people wouldn’t be getting arrested and jailed for it. The fact cases come out at all shows it isn’t accepted.

Crime existing does not mean a community approves of it. By your logic, domestic abuse would be tolerated in white British communities because it still happens. That’s obviously nonsense.

You’re confusing something happening with something being accepted. They are not the same thing.

The difference is still basic and you keep dodging it: in the UK the law is on the victim’s side. In the countries people flee from, it often isn’t. Calling me naive doesn’t change that.

[Parmy]

In the year ending March 2025, there were 2,949 "honour-based" abuse (HBA) related offences recorded by the police in England and Wales. This represents a 7% increase from the 2,755 offences recorded in the year ending March 2024.
It is widely recognized by the Home Office and charities that these figures represent only a small fraction of the actual HBA offences committed, as it is a "hidden crime" with many victims reluctant to report to authorities.
Key Data and Trends (England and Wales):
While offences in March 2025 slightly rose, the previous year saw a decrease, indicating a relatively stable trend over the past five years. There were 2,047 HBA-related incidents recorded in the year ending March 2025, a 13% increase from the prior year.
The offences in the year ending March 2025 included 109 FGM and 125 forced marriage cases, with the majority relating to controlling behavior, assault, and harassment. The increase in recorded offences may be partly due to improved police recording.
Key Findings on "Honour" Crimes:
Charity experts estimate that around 17,000 incidents of HBA or forced marriage occur annually in the UK, highlighting significant underreporting.
It's estimated that at least 12 "honour" killings happen in the UK each year.
Data from one charity indicates that 90% of victims were female, with a significant portion aged 18 to 25.
The Metropolitan Police Service recorded the highest number of HBA offences in the year ending March 2025.

[Glenn.]

You’ve just proved my point, not yours

Those stats exist because these crimes are being reported, recorded and dealt with. That’s what it looks like when something isn’t tolerated. If it was accepted, it wouldn’t be showing up in police data at all.

Even using your own numbers, you’re talking about a tiny fraction of people. You can’t take crimes committed by a small number and use that to smear whole communities or justify panicking about millions of others.

And underreporting isn’t unique to this. Domestic abuse and sexual violence are massively underreported across every group in the UK. We don’t then decide that means white British communities “tolerate” it.

So no, this doesn’t prove cultural approval. It proves the system is involved, police are involved, charities are involved, and victims have ways to get help.

You’re still confusing crimes happening with crimes being accepted. They’re not the same thing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Parmy

In the year ending March 2025, there were 2,949 "honour-based" abuse (HBA) related offences recorded by the police in England and Wales. This represents a 7% increase from the 2,755 offences recorded in the year ending March 2024.
It is widely recognized by the Home Office and charities that these figures represent only a small fraction of the actual HBA offences committed, as it is a "hidden crime" with many victims reluctant to report to authorities.
Key Data and Trends (England and Wales):
While offences in March 2025 slightly rose, the previous year saw a decrease, indicating a relatively stable trend over the past five years. There were 2,047 HBA-related incidents recorded in the year ending March 2025, a 13% increase from the prior year.
The offences in the year ending March 2025 included 109 FGM and 125 forced marriage cases, with the majority relating to controlling behavior, assault, and harassment. The increase in recorded offences may be partly due to improved police recording.
Key Findings on "Honour" Crimes:
Charity experts estimate that around 17,000 incidents of HBA or forced marriage occur annually in the UK, highlighting significant underreporting.
It's estimated that at least 12 "honour" killings happen in the UK each year.
Data from one charity indicates that 90% of victims were female, with a significant portion aged 18 to 25.
The Metropolitan Police Service recorded the highest number of HBA offences in the year ending March 2025.

But its against the law here..... apparently that absolves everything, tell that to the dead women

[Glenn.]

The point is obvious and you keep dodging it: crimes being illegal, investigated and prosecuted means they are not socially or legally accepted. Women being murdered is a tragedy. Using their deaths to claim whole communities tolerate it is lazy and dishonest.

Women are killed by partners and family members in the UK every week. That doesn’t mean British society tolerates it. It means crime exists and the system is supposed to deal with it, even if it often fails victims.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The point is obvious and you keep dodging it: crimes being illegal, investigated and prosecuted means they are not socially or legally accepted. Women being murdered is a tragedy. Using their deaths to claim whole communities tolerate it is lazy and dishonest.

Women are killed by partners and family members in the UK every week. That doesn’t mean British society tolerates it. It means crime exists and the system is supposed to deal with it, even if it often fails victims.

But the british do it because they are deranged, whilst stuff like honour killings are done because it's culturally accepted.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Parmy

But the british do it because they are deranged, whilst stuff like honour killings are done because it's culturally accepted.

That’s just not true, and it’s the same dodge every time.

Honour killings are not culturally accepted here. They’re illegal, they’re prosecuted, and they’re condemned, including by the communities you’re trying to lump together. The fact they’re tracked separately and treated as serious crimes shows they’re not brushed off or normalised.

And British men killing partners isn’t just because they’re deranged. That’s a convenient way to individualise violence you’re comfortable with and culturalise violence you’re scared of. Domestic abuse, coercive control and misogyny exist here too. We just don’t label them culture because they look familiar.

What you’re really doing is this: when white men do it, it’s a tragic individual crime. When brown men do it, it suddenly represents an entire culture. That isn’t analysis, it’s bias doing the work.

The point still stands. Crime existing does not mean society accepts it. If it did, by your logic, British society would be culturally accepting of domestic violence.

[Parmy]

The people doing them see it as culturally accepted...even the victims families at times




****ing read properly.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Parmy

The people doing them see it as culturally accepted...even the victims families at times




****ing read properly.

And that still doesn’t mean society accepts it.

Some perpetrators believing they’re justified doesn’t equal cultural acceptance. Criminals of all kinds think what they’re doing is fine. Abusive husbands think they’re entitled. Stalkers think they’re in love. That doesn’t make it culture, it makes it criminal thinking.

And yes, sometimes families side with abusers. That happens in white British families too. It’s called fear, shame, control and coercion, not proof that society is on board.

You’re still making the same leap: a few people believing something equals an entire culture accepting it. That leap doesn’t work, no matter how annoyed you get about it.

[Parmy]

You live in a fantasy world.


I'm done.

[Glenn.]

If pointing out the difference between criminals believing their own excuses and society actually accepting those crimes is a fantasy, then yeah, we’re clearly not in the same reality.

Off you pop.

[Livia]

So long as violence, murder, fgm, honour killings, denial of education and medical treatment etc etc are being done to women, I guess the Gays for Gaza will turn a blind eye and justify an archaic regime that also hates their guts and thinks they're sub-human.

[Glenn.]

You keep acting like the choice is either ignore abuse or dehumanise whole populations. You can oppose violence, defend victims, and still understand why people flee places run by violent, archaic systems.

Reducing this to good guys versus sub-human bad guys isn’t the moral clarity you arrogantly think it is.

[Parmy]

Another person who would still be alive today had we stopped the boats, and their unchecked occupants.


https://news.sky.com/story/asylum-se...lsall-13500686

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

This isn’t official crime stats. It’s a campaign group using FOI police data and then doing its own calculations.

That doesn’t mean crime doesn’t exist. It means this graphic is designed to scare people, not explain anything. If it was solid, it would be published by the ONS with clear methods. It isn’t.

[Livia]

It's well known the biggest perpetrators of rape are Afghanis. No surprises there...

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's well known the biggest perpetrators of rape are Afghanis. No surprises there...

But Jimmy saville raped, he was British.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Parmy

But Jimmy saville raped, he was British.

LOL... Oh yeah, I forgot. That cancels out all the Afghan rapes, naturally. I forgot the rules for a minute.

[Glenn.]

Rape is overwhelmingly committed by men against women, usually by someone they already know, across every country and background. That’s what the actual evidence shows. Nationality isn’t some magic switch that turns people into rapists.

Pointing out Savile wasn’t to cancel anything out, it was to show how stupid your logic is. When British men rape, you call them monsters as individuals. When migrants do, you suddenly decide it’s a whole culture. That double standard is doing all the work here.