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WOMBAI · 29-03-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

But thats how the religion is though! If youre christian, you are supposed to believe in that. Go read about predestination, and you will see, thats the case.
Thats why there are certain things in my religion I cant quite understand, and I can only assume that maybe our interpretation is not accurate.

Probably one reason why I am not particularly religious - too many missing pieces!

Shasown · 29-03-2010, 06:25 PM

So then what about people who lived and died before christianity was introduced to the area they live, they have been predestined to an eternity away from gods love?

What about people who adhere to a different faith, for example followers of Islam, the Jewish Faith, are they in fact worshipping false idols and as such again lining up an eternity away from god? Or do you consider they worship god just in a different way? What about Seikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc?

If for example you think that following Christ is the only way to "salvation" who do you blame for muslims not converting to christianity? The Muslims themselves or the Christians who failed to convert them by either not being good missionaries or even not being good enough christians to set an example others would follow? In which case who would God save, the bad christians who failed to convince the muslims to convert or the muslims themselves?

Or if its a case of so long as you follow a god and adhere to some form of belief will you be saved and sit in God's presence? Does that mean that those of another religion or even those that dont follow a true established religion will also be saved?

ChristmasNeeve · 29-03-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Life and death is not an episode from the Waltons.

Excuse me? I don't quite follow you

ChristmasNeeve · 29-03-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Doesn't that also mean that he predestined you not to do so - how can one apply without the other - so how can he then punish those that don't choose God, by excluding them from his everlasting love - if it is not their fault! And anyway - do parents stop loving their kids when they don't follow the path that they would choose for them? None of it makes any logical sense!

yeah, that's right and also If you're a really good person who doesn't believe in God, how can a God who is supposed to be loving and giving punish you for not believing in him, I mean he created our minds, we cannot send a person to jail without solid proof that they commited the crime, so how can he expect us to believe in him without any proof? We have the bible where some men told us there was a God but this is second hand information, why should I believe these men I don't even know them? If God is so eager for people to believe in him why doesn't he tell people that he exists?

keithafc · 29-03-2010, 10:49 PM

There is more chance of a spirit realm than there being a god. I think religion is the biggest made up nonsense to control the masses.

I agree with Patrick. I'd go down the spiritual route than the organised religion route. Not as in being apart of a spirtual group or anything but study the paranormal and you might get some interesting results.

WOMBAI · 29-03-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yeah, that's right and also If you're a really good person who doesn't believe in God, how can a God who is supposed to be loving and giving punish you for not believing in him, I mean he created our minds, we cannot send a person to jail without solid proof that they commited the crime, so how can he expect us to believe in him without any proof? We have the bible where some men told us there was a God but this is second hand information, why should I believe these men I don't even know them? If God is so eager for people to believe in him why doesn't he tell people that he exists?

This is when they throw in the word FAITH! Apparently we are just supposed to have faith in his existence - that is what we are being tested on! Since when does not having enough faith in something/someone constitute a crime and make us not worthy to be saved! Extremely harsh - rather makes a mockery of the idea of Christianity as far as I am concerned. Illogical rubbish!

keithafc · 29-03-2010, 11:43 PM

The pope doesn't help himself either with his whole reject of condoms and not saying enough on the paedophile issue.

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithafc

There is more chance of a spirit realm than there being a god. I think religion is the biggest made up nonsense to control the masses.

I agree with Patrick. I'd go down the spiritual route than the organised religion route. Not as in being apart of a spirtual group or anything but study the paranormal and you might get some interesting results.

I love the "to control the masses line"

You hear it a lot from people who have never taken the time to study religion.

Can you explain what you mean. Who is controlling, what masses and what bits of say the Christian religion do you refer too?

Shasown · 30-03-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I love the "to control the masses line"

You hear it a lot from people who have never taken the time to study religion.

Can you explain what you mean. Who is controlling, what masses and what bits of say the Christian religion do you refer too?

Ah Good to see LT SOP(Leather Trumpet Standard Operating Procedure) No 3 - when comments or questions are asked of you in a thread you find difficult or havent got a clue how to answer, ignore it. Followed by SOP No 4 try to take the thread off in a new direction on a subject by introduciong a comment plucked out of the air you are prepared to argue on.

Who was on about religion controlling the masses?

Nice tactics mate but come on answer the questions asked of you, at least have an attempt at answering some of the comments, criticisms and questions in posts 70 - 82

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown

Who was on about religion controlling the masses?

"There is more chance of a spirit realm than there being a god. I think religion is the biggest made up nonsense to control the masses." Post#80

Shasown · 30-03-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"There is more chance of a spirit realm than there being a god. I think religion is the biggest made up nonsense to control the masses." Post#80

What about the comments in the previous 10 posts, no comment or answer?

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown

Ah Good to see LT SOP(Leather Trumpet Standard Operating Procedure) No 3 - when comments or questions are asked of you in a thread you find difficult or havent got a clue how to answer, ignore it.

which question?

if you mean your post:

"So then what about people who lived and died before christianity was introduced to the area they live, they have been predestined to an eternity away from gods love?What about people who adhere to a different faith, for example followers of Islam, the Jewish Faith, are they in fact worshipping false idols and as such again lining up an eternity away from god? Or do you consider they worship god just in a different way? What about Seikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc?If for example you think that following Christ is the only way to "salvation" who do you blame for muslims not converting to christianity? The Muslims themselves or the Christians who failed to convert them by either not being good missionaries or even not being good enough christians to set an example others would follow? In which case who would God save, the bad christians who failed to convince the muslims to convert or the muslims themselves?Or if its a case of so long as you follow a god and adhere to some form of belief will you be saved and sit in God's presence? Does that mean that those of another religion or even those that dont follow a true established religion will also be saved? "

You did not address that screed to anyone you just spent 30 minutes googling things and then posted it, off topic completely, in the thread?

Wildcat asked about predestination and I put him in touch with that section on the carm website. If you have questions about that content then go to the website and read some more as they cover it really well.

Shasown · 30-03-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

which question?

if you mean your post:

"So then what about people who lived and died before christianity was introduced to the area they live, they have been predestined to an eternity away from gods love?What about people who adhere to a different faith, for example followers of Islam, the Jewish Faith, are they in fact worshipping false idols and as such again lining up an eternity away from god? Or do you consider they worship god just in a different way? What about Seikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc?If for example you think that following Christ is the only way to "salvation" who do you blame for muslims not converting to christianity? The Muslims themselves or the Christians who failed to convert them by either not being good missionaries or even not being good enough christians to set an example others would follow? In which case who would God save, the bad christians who failed to convince the muslims to convert or the muslims themselves?Or if its a case of so long as you follow a god and adhere to some form of belief will you be saved and sit in God's presence? Does that mean that those of another religion or even those that dont follow a true established religion will also be saved? "

You did not address that screed to anyone you just spent 30 minutes googling things and then posted it, off topic completely, in the thread?

Wildcat asked about predestination and I put him in touch with that section on the carm website. If you have questions about that content then go to the website and read some more as they cover it really well.

Oh i see so your own personal beliefs are exactly as everything posted on that site? Thats good thanks for that. As for it being off topic, wasnt the post following the current line of the thread? Actually I ws looking forward to another patronising comment from you in response to Niamhxo.

And no I didnt google anything for that post. But go on then try and prove me wrong, you will notice the word I used is try beause that preconditions the situation with failure, because the post came directly from me not any other website. You see unlike you i dont need to refer to a website to back up my beliefs.

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown

Oh i see so your own personal beliefs are exactly as everything posted on that site? Thats good thanks for that. As for it being off topic, wasnt the post following the current line of the thread? Actually I ws looking forward to another patronising comment from you in response to Niamhxo.

And no I didnt google anything for that post. But go on then try and prove me wrong, you will notice the word I used is try beause that preconditions the situation with failure, because the post came directly from me not any other website. You see unlike you i dont need to refer to a website to back up my beliefs.

a simple sorry would have been more gracious rather than that diatribe of self-justification.

Shasown · 30-03-2010, 10:49 AM

Thats okay LT I accept your apology

ChristmasNeeve · 30-03-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

This is when they throw in the word FAITH! Apparently we are just supposed to have faith in his existence - that is what we are being tested on! Since when does not having enough faith in something/someone constitute a crime and make us not worthy to be saved! Extremely harsh - rather makes a mockery of the idea of Christianity as far as I am concerned. Illogical rubbish!

yes, you see have having "Faith" is all well and good but it's actually the men who wrote the bible you're putting your faith in not God because they're the ones you have to believe are telling the truth about God

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yes, you see have having "Faith" is all well and good but it's actually the men who wrote the bible you're putting your faith in not God because they're the ones you have to believe are telling the truth about God

if you are referring to the Gospels then there is no doubt in the minds of any serious historian that what is written is what happened. What you have to decide is, ok they saw this but what does it mean. There is little faith in over 5000 documents some going as far back as 120AD. There is a lot more faith involved in a whole myriad of early historical (non-religious) figures.

ChristmasNeeve · 30-03-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if you are referring to the Gospels then there is no doubt in the minds of any serious historian that what is written is what happened. What you have to decide is, ok they saw this but what does it mean. There is little faith in over 5000 documents some going as far back as 120AD. There is a lot more faith involved in a whole myriad of early historical (non-religious) figures.

No, you're not listening to what I'm saying though, I understand that these people existed but what I'm saying is why should I believe what these men are saying to me? It's the same as asking me to believe L Ron Hubbard imo.

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

No, you're not listening to what I'm saying though, I understand that these people existed but what I'm saying is why should I believe what these men are saying to me? It's the same as asking me to believe L Ron Hubbard imo.

it is simply all about Jesus, who he was and what he said. I think many people struggle with the whole God idea and i get that but Jesus was and is God so a study of what he is should answer many questions.

ChristmasNeeve · 30-03-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

it is simply all about Jesus, who he was and what he said. I think many people struggle with the whole God idea and i get that but Jesus was and is God so a study of what he is should answer many questions.

Yes I believe there was a man called Jesus and another bunch of men believed he was the son of God/God but this doesn't prove to me that he was actually who/what they said he was

Christmas Dynasnow · 30-03-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes I believe there was a man called Jesus and another bunch of men believed he was the son of God/God but this doesn't prove to me that he was actually who/what they said he was

What would prove this to you?