[Vicky.]

I dont give a **** about his rights to be honest. Commit a crime like that, you dont deserve anything.

I agree with livia and pyramid.

And I dont understand how people can be so...understanding...about a monster who did what he did :/

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont give a **** about his rights to be honest. Commit a crime like that, you dont deserve anything.

I agree with livia and pyramid.

And I dont understand how people can be so...understanding...about a monster who did what he did :/

If I am very honest Vicky. Neither do I. This pondlife has shown no regard for the HR, dignity or respect for a defenceless toddler to whom he helped inflict the most awful abuse and torture.

Why anyone would feel he deserves the very basic fundamental right that he refused such an innocent child... horrifies me. In fact, it sickens me.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

He should be marched out into the middle of a field, stood over a hole and shot in the back of the head. No ceremony, no "I am the Truth and the Light sayeth the Lord.." It's a job I would be happy to do.

I am not an advocate for the death penalty but this case has as has others, made me feel really sick.

I really think these people are so inhuman they lose the right to be classed as human.On this one I am with you Livia and I am sick and tired of these toddlers suffering so inhumanely at the hands of elders who should be actually protecting them and keeping them safe.

There are no morals or decency about people who can do this to a child and end the child's life too.There is not a word in any language rotten enough to describe the torture these scum put this child through.

[patsylimerick]

My head's with In One but my heaert's with Pyramid and Livia. I would prefer someone like this to be killed, if I'm brutally honest. But I do understand the argument that 'we' are then surrendering the moral authority. It really bothers me, though, when it comes to this kind of crime. There are no words for how abhorrent it is. Maybe In One's idea would work. But the conditions would have to be fairly grim. This kind of behaviour should not be rewarded with hand-holding, liberal nonsense. There is certainly a dearth of consequences in our modern society, if violent crime rates are anything to go by. These people are afraid of no-one and nothing and have no compunction or empathy. So how DO we stop this kind of thing happening without the ultimate punishment?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If I am very honest Vicky. Neither do I. This pondlife has shown no regard for the HR, dignity or respect for a defenceless toddler to whom he helped inflict the most awful abuse and torture.

Why anyone would feel he deserves the very basic fundamental right that he refused such an innocent child... horrifies me. In fact, it sickens me.

There's not one single justifiable point to disagree with you on this post Pyramid,I couldn't agree more.

[Ammi]

Whatever we feel he deserves, of course there is no death penalty and he will be released and I think Pyramid's question was should he be given a new identity at the considerable cost to us. As far as I am concerned he can rot in hell because that's what Baby P did, they left him to rot in a living hell until his body found peace. That may sound harsh, inappropriate, inhumane, well those are words that describe him perfectly and sometimes in life there is no compassion left.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by rhino

Whatever we feel he deserves, of course there is no death penalty and he will be released and I think Pyramid's question was should he be given a new identity at the considerable cost to us. As far as I am concerned he can rot in hell because that's what Baby P did, they left him to rot in a living hell until his body found peace. That may sound harsh, inappropriate, inhumane, well those are words that describe him perfectly and sometimes in life there is no compassion left.

Thanks for reining in the natural emotions that many of us are feeling and venting.

That indeed was the matter in hand.

I happen to agree - as I said in my OP - he made his bloody bed: he can lie in it when 'freedom ' comes - and take the consequences. without being given right to a new life or anonymity.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If I am very honest Vicky. Neither do I. This pondlife has shown no regard for the HR, dignity or respect for a defenceless toddler to whom he helped inflict the most awful abuse and torture.

Why anyone would feel he deserves the very basic fundamental right that he refused such an innocent child... horrifies me. In fact, it sickens me.

That's funny, I find it "sickens" me when people use pure bloodlust as their basis for a suitable punishment but there we go.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's funny, I find it "sickens" me when people use pure bloodlust as their basis for a suitable punishment but there we go.

OK I usually agree with you on most things, but do you really think 5 years in prison and then a new identity...free to live a new(probably better) life...is suitable punishment for what he did?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's funny, I find it "sickens" me when people use pure bloodlust as their basis for a suitable punishment but there we go.

I find it funny that out of all the numerous other forum members that felt very much the same as I did....and posted to this effect, that you would choose to single out only my own post.

mmmm.....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont give a **** about his rights to be honest. Commit a crime like that, you dont deserve anything.

I agree with livia and pyramid.

And I dont understand how people can be so...understanding...about a monster who did what he did :/

Because the world would be a much worse place if Mob Justice was the norm. There has to be a standard to uphold or we might as well give into chaos.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

OK I usually agree with you on most things, but do you really think 5 years in prison and then a new identity...free to live a new(probably better) life...is suitable punishment for what he did?

No, not really. I think the guy's a scumbag and I doubt he feels remorse for his actions and I doubt he's been rehabilitated so I'd rather he wasn't released until he's show true remorse and there's sufficient evidence that he'll no longer pose so big a threat. But I don't agree with the death penalty and I don't think I can support depriving someone of basic human rights, that sets quite a dangerous precedent, it'd be hypocritical to do it and I dont think we have any right to do it and stoop down to that level.

Don't get me wrong I can understand the hatred towards him but I don't appreciate Pyramid saying that's she's sickened because I oppose capital punishment and the disregarding of human rights.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by MTVN

No, not really. I think the guy's a scumbag and I doubt he feels remorse for his actions and I doubt he's been rehabilitated so I'd rather he wasn't released until he's show true remorse and there's sufficient evidence that he'll no longer pose so big a threat. But I don't agree with the death penalty and I don't think I can support depriving someone of basic human rights, that sets quite a dangerous precedent, it'd be hypocritical to do it and I dont think we have any right to do it and stoop down to that level.

Don't get me wrong I can understand the hatred towards him but I don't appreciate Pyramid saying that's she's sickened because I oppose capital punishment and the disregarding of human rights.

I do understand what you're saying but the thread is really about whether he is entitled to a new identity, at our expense. I am guilty as anyone for becoming too emotional on the subject of what I would like to do to him because its very hard, as a parent to not think....if someone did this to my child and I am sure that's how Pyramid feels too, as any parent out there would. I understand that abhores you but it is very hard to not feel emotional about this. Good we have forums to do this so we don't go round killing each other

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm with MTVN on this one. The whole point of our Justice system is that we're better then the criminals we punish, shooting someone in a ditch is hardly a good example of that. It's an emotional response that has no place in justice. It's misguided and pointless to call vengeance justice and not enough people can make that distinction. If you want to talk law or justice then leave your emotions at the door.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because the world would be a much worse place if Mob Justice was the norm. There has to be a standard to uphold or we might as well give into chaos.

With your comments above then, and taking into consideration my opening post: does this mean that you agree that this scumbag should be given a new identity, fresh start, home, job etc all at the cost of the taxpayer.

If not: may I ask what you feel should be the appropriate way forward? Do you feel that having served 4 years for the torturous abuse this man (and others) inflicted upon an innocent, defenceless young todder - is adequate punishment.

Are you of the view that having served 'his time', that he should be allowed to come out of jail, and simpy 'get on with his life', uninterrupted,without issue. ?

[Vicky.]

The whole 'justice' system needs a complete overhaul tbh.

And none of this new identity crap. People should learn to live with their crimes. If this means they get a few beatings in the street or whatever when they are let out, so be it. Its a consequence of being a sick ****.

[Vicky.]

The whole 'justice' system needs a complete overhaul tbh.

And none of this new identity crap. People should learn to live with their crimes. If this means they get a few beatings in the street or whatever when they are let out, so be it. Its a consequence of being a sick ****.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

No, not really. I think the guy's a scumbag and I doubt he feels remorse for his actions and I doubt he's been rehabilitated so I'd rather he wasn't released until he's show true remorse and there's sufficient evidence that he'll no longer pose so big a threat. But I don't agree with the death penalty and I don't think I can support depriving someone of basic human rights, that sets quite a dangerous precedent, it'd be hypocritical to do it and I dont think we have any right to do it and stoop down to that level.

Don't get me wrong I can understand the hatred towards him but I don't appreciate Pyramid saying that's she's sickened because I oppose capital punishment and the disregarding of human rights.

To be honest with you, it's really not of any concern to me (or indeed anyone) whether you appreciate my view or not. That's your own subjective viewpoint. It does not negate my right to disagree with you for all of the reasons I have previously submitted.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The whole 'justice' system needs a complete overhaul tbh.

And none of this new identity crap. People should learn to live with their crimes. If this means they get a few beatings in the street or whatever when they are let out, so be it. Its a consequence of being a sick ****.

Agree. 100%.

They made their bed. Let them lie in it. Regardless.

What goes around, comes around. (especially as far as the laughing stock that is the British Justice System is concerned)

[Stu]

Just throw him in a nice, clean cell with three solid meals and a half hour stroll in a concrete yard a day for the rest of his life.

It's more than enough punishment. He will have god knows how many years to slowly rot away in agonising, torturous, sanitised boredom. Don't ever let him out and just reduce him to a number. It's a cheaper death penalty without having blood on our hands. I do not think it's healthy for a nation to legislate murder no matter what the circumstances. I know it's dissapointing for the legion of tabloid gobblers totally unaffected by it who want something to go with their Sky News and grim convorsations because the soaps don't start till' seven.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stu

Just throw him in a nice, clean cell with three solid meals and a half hour stroll in a concrete yard a day for the rest of his life.

It's more than enough punishment. He will have god knows how many years to slowly rot away in agonising, torturous, sanitised boredom. Don't ever let him out and just reduce him to a number. It's a cheaper death penalty without having blood on our hands. I do not think it's healthy for a nation to legislate murder no matter what the circumstances. I know it's dissapointing for the legion of tabloid gobblers totally unaffected by it who want something to go with their Sky News and grim convorsations because the soaps don't start till' seven.

Why the hell should the hard working tax payers money be used to help feed, cloth and house scum like this?

Damn sure I'm bloody not happy about paying my ever increasing taxes to keep low life this this fed, watered and with a roof over their heads.

Perhaps those who don't actually contribute work for a living or pay taxes via PAYE , who aren't working might be happy with this, but I can tell you right now: I seriously object to my hard earned pounds being used in this manner.

[Vicky.]

I work, and pay taxes(a lot of them ) and I would be happy if scum like that got LIFE in prison. Thats real life mind, as in they die there...not life as in the paltry 7 years or whatever they serve at the minute.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Why the hell should the hard working tax payers money be used to help feed, cloth and house scum like this?

Damn sure I'm bloody not happy about paying my ever increasing taxes to keep low life this this fed, watered and with a roof over their heads.

Because it would cost less than all the red tape involved in capital punishment. Red tape you can't remove. We are a civilised society and no matter how uncivilised he was this pipe dream of being able to simply cap him off and bury his ass gangland style will not happen.

That leaves us with no other choice. So it's just something that has to happen, isin't it. This visceral 'MY MONEY IS PAYING FOR MONSTERS!' personalisation people make for whatever fraction of a penny they are paying towards a single prisoner is so annoying.

Your tax goes fucking everywhere. It's how society works. It has to happen. You're also paying for burglars, rapists, unemployed sofa shaggers and all manner of vagabonds and layabouts.

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Perhaps those who don't actually contribute work for a living or pay taxes via PAYE , who aren't working might be happy with this, but I can tell you right now: I seriously object to my hard earned pounds being used in this manner.

Okay you got me. I'm only sticking up for the kiddie beater because I can't find a job.

A truly needless addition to an otherwise fine post. Having to pay for Myra Hindley's soup all those years must have really torn you up.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I work, and pay taxes(a lot of them ) and I would be happy if scum like that got LIFE in prison. Thats real life mind, as in they die there...not life as in the paltry 7 years or whatever they serve at the minute.

Wish I could agree with you. I can't.

I object passionately that public money should be spent feeding, clothing and housing such scum. I'd far rather then money went towards schooling, hospitals, care homes and in the thrust of the thread - proper social services care and towards helping victims who have survived such horrors.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stu

Because it would cost less than all the red tape involved in capital punishment. Red tape you can't remove. We are a civilised society and no matter how uncivilised he was this pipe dream of being able to simply cap him off and bury his ass gangland style will not happen.

That leaves us with no other choice. So it's just something that has to happen, isin't it. This visceral 'MY MONEY IS PAYING FOR MONSTERS!' personalisation people make for whatever fraction of a penny they are paying towards a single prisoner is so annoying.

Your tax goes fucking everywhere. It's how society works. It has to happen. You're also paying for burglars, rapists, unemployed sofa shaggers and all manner of vagabonds and layabouts.


Okay you got me. I'm only sticking up for the kiddie beater because I can't find a job.

A truly needless addition to an otherwise fine post. Having to pay for Myra Hindley's soup all those years must have really torn you up.

I don't believe I have mentioned capital punishment. I have said let him lie in the bed he made upon being freed from jail.

BTW, throwing in a few expletives gives no more weight or credence to your post. It shows that you cannot post without crudity -it's completely uncessary and to make a point, you doing so in the manner you are doing: you are deliberately avoiding the swear filter.

I also did not say my tax money did not fund other areas within society - or that my tax money was soley channelled only towards funding the upkeep of such low life.

As for your personal comment at the very end of your comment, again, quite uncessary and not required.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

With your comments above then, and taking into consideration my opening post: does this mean that you agree that this scumbag should be given a new identity, fresh start, home, job etc all at the cost of the taxpayer.

If not: may I ask what you feel should be the appropriate way forward? Do you feel that having served 4 years for the torturous abuse this man (and others) inflicted upon an innocent, defenceless young todder - is adequate punishment.

Are you of the view that having served 'his time', that he should be allowed to come out of jail, and simpy 'get on with his life', uninterrupted,without issue. ?

None of the above.

I don't know enough about this story apart from the odd trashy snippet from the tabloids to judge fairly so I won't. As for the new Identity I can see the pros and cons of it. On one hand it'll protect the public from themselves as some idiots would undoubtedly decide to ***** up their own lives and try to dish out some mob justice but on the other hand it could be seen as protecting him. The idea that he'd be living in luxury is a typical hysterical Daily Mail image that, like the newspaper itself, is rarely based on fact. If he was given any protection then it would be under the condition that he'd have to give in to a lot of restrictions and such and given the high profile nature of his crimes he'd be under constant watch.

Whether he gets a new identity or not should depend on whether he's truly been reformed by the end of his sentence, if he is then I don't see a problem with as it would cost more to keep him locked up for life and that way he could eventually contribute to society. Only criminals that truly want to change should be given that level of help though and whether prison will change him or not remains to be seen.