[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

Good spot Gypsy, but why no mention of her pretendng to headbutt him at 3:33?

Thanks, and I didn't mention that because it never happened, she got into his face but never in a threatening manner.

Also you do realise he is a boxer??


Is this world gone mad?

[Kizzy]

Women stay in toxic relationships because they (wrongly) take on the blame for the behaviours of their abusers... A bit like hazel here actually, you can see she's feeling guilty that daley has been ejected and may even think it's her fault due to her flirting.
Which of course is rollocks, daley is an adult with a brain he is the only person to be held accountable for his actions.

[YodaBB]

Jesus, people on the channel 5 website are all saying she should be removed as well..

A guy pins a girl to a bed and threatens to headbutt her for not respecting him, and everyone rushes to their computers to cry outrage that she isn't also out for her behaviour. Just, wow.

And this is coming from someone who dislikes Hazel.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Women stay in toxic relationships because they (wrongly) take on the blame for the behaviours of their abusers... A bit like hazel here actually, you can see she's feeling guilty that daley has been ejected and may even think it's her fault due to her flirting.
Which of course is rollocks, daley is an adult with a brain he is the only person to be held accountable for his actions.

I think that's a wonderful point

Sadly it'll be lost on people here who seem to condone his behaviour.

[Roy Mars III]

it would be pretty odd if she wasn't scared, it was a scary situation for anyone to be in. It obviously started out as play fighting but Daley changed halfway through or so and got serious (even if he thought he was play fighting). There was no indication that I could see that he was joking around. I think anyone would be afraid in that situation. Daley is a big guy and who knows what he could potentially do. I know I would be ****ting myself in a similar situation. No one should be able to put someone in the position and still be in the house

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jords

Its so confusing though, I watched that whole clip. I cant seem to find the point where things were getting nasty.

The whole thing was charged with sexual aggression from both, she tries to calm it down once or twice throughout but sort of keeps going with it. He doesn't actually get "nasty"... he thinks he's being sexually dominant, he doesn't realise she doesn't like it. The exact point where it goes too far (for her) is 3.35 where he grabs her neck and says "pipe down". Completely changes in tone there. The problem isn't what he said or did - which would have been fine if she was into it. Each to their own, right? The problem was that it should have been pretty clear and he should have realised that it was a step too far and she wasn't comfortable any more, but he didn't, he was too wrapped up in it to notice. Which really is a problem. When you're playing that sort of "game" you HAVE to know that the game is still "on" or you risk very dodgy situations and that's exactly what happened.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by YodaBB

Jesus, people on the channel 5 website are all saying she should be removed as well..

A guy pins a girl to a bed and threatens to headbutt her for not respecting him, and everyone rushes to their computers to cry outrage that she isn't also out for her behaviour. Just, wow.

And this is coming from someone who dislikes Hazel.

she deserved a warning for that pants thing, but it is ridiculous to even entertain the idea of her being ejected

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Thanks, and I didn't mention that because it never happened, she got into his face but never in a threatening manner.

Also you do realise he is a boxer??


Is this world gone mad?

I don't actually think she was going to headbutt him, but his later behaviour mimics hers to an extent. She gestures as though about to get him and he doesn't flinch, and he stupidly does the same and people think he was about to bray her. Does my head in when people go on about his profession gender or size. It's like the ridiculous idea that it's ok for women to go around slapping men - "she's smaller than him. he should have just walked away." Noone should slap anyone, and if she's trying to make him flinch to assert sexual dominance, and the idiot does the same seconds later, he's not suddenly some uber-villain because he's male and built. She was hammering him minutes before with a pillow and he laughed but if he had done that to her, once again the gender/size/profession card would have been played.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I think that's a wonderful point

Sadly it'll be lost on people here who seem to condone his behaviour.

Thankyou gypsy I know as I spent two years feeling like that, until the scales fell from my eyes.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

it would be pretty odd if she wasn't scared, it was a scary situation for anyone to be in. It obviously started out as play fighting but Daley changed halfway through or so and got serious (even if he thought he was play fighting). There was no indication that I could see that he was joking around. I think anyone would be afraid in that situation. Daley is a big guy and who knows what he could potentially do. I know I would be ****ting myself in a similar situation. No one should be able to put someone in the position and still be in the house

I think people can only see it from the outside perspective; if you imagine the whole scene from her viewpoint, it's extremely intense. I also can't help but think the same situation in private, without the cameras and Big Brother to intervene, would have gotten even worse. Not because he's evil and wanted to hurt her but because he really had no clue that she was scared, so he would have carried on.

Daley had to be thrown out for it. If anything, so that he might realise how he was so very wrong when he looks back at it, and be more mindful in these situations in future.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Miranda123

OH I GET IT NOW

a guy you hardly know (but are more than eager to be alone with) uses threatening behaviour towards you and 'terrifies' you

But, wait a minute, he seems to be calming down now, what should I do

Answers:

A. Run a bleeding mile

B. Run a bleeding mile

C. Jump into bed beside him and spoon him for the rest of the evening and then wake up and kiss him and say 'Good Morning Husband'

Obviously its C..............DOH

The same reason abused partners stay around, once they've returned to normal and are their regular selves, they forgive, forget and hope to move on.

Unfortunately for Daley, in the BB house only one incident is enough to get you thrown out.

[Maneki-neko]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Oh hellz no!!

Get Hazel out. She's going to play the innocent card now, and I definitely saw the abusive signs in him card.

Shut the **** up

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thankyou gypsy I know as I spent two years feeling like that, until the scales fell from my eyes.

I empathise with your self-disclosure, but maintain you are projecting your experiences without sufficient evidence as to his intentions or thoughts.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think people can only see it from the outside perspective; if you imagine the whole scene from her viewpoint, it's extremely intense. I also can't help but think the same situation in private, without the cameras and Big Brother to intervene, would have gotten even worse. Not because he's evil and wanted to hurt her but because he really had no clue that she was scared, so he would have carried on.

Daley had to be thrown out for it. If anything, so that he might realise how he was so very wrong when he looks back at it, and be more mindful in these situations in future.

yea, it's easy to watch it and say that she wasn't scared and that she knew he was play fighting. Maybe she is lying, but I will assume she's not seeing that the situation was so intense and scary. I think a lot of the people arguing that she is somehow lying about being scared just don't like the girl and their negative opinion of her is clouding their judgement

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

I don't actually think she was going to headbutt him, but his later behaviour mimics hers to an extent. She gestures as though about to get him and he doesn't flinch, and he stupidly does the same and people think he was about to bray her. Does my head in when people go on about his profession gender or size. It's like the ridiculous idea that it's ok for women to go around slapping men - "she's smaller than him. he should have just walked away." Noone should slap anyone, and if she's trying to make him flinch to assert sexual dominance, and the idiot does the same seconds later, he's not suddenly some uber-villain because he's male and built. She was hammering him minutes before with a pillow and he laughed but if he had done that to her, once again the gender/size/profession card would have been played.

No you're missing what happened. The series of events weren't all play fighting and flirting, and seeing who was the most dominant sexually.

Here is a good account of them:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The whole thing was charged with sexual aggression from both, she tries to calm it down once or twice throughout but sort of keeps going with it. He doesn't actually get "nasty"... he thinks he's being sexually dominant, he doesn't realise she doesn't like it. The exact point where it goes too far (for her) is 3.35 where he grabs her neck and says "pipe down". Completely changes in tone there. The problem isn't what he said or did - which would have been fine if she was into it. Each to their own, right? The problem was that it should have been pretty clear and he should have realised that it was a step too far and she wasn't comfortable any more, but he didn't, he was too wrapped up in it to notice. Which really is a problem. When you're playing that sort of "game" you HAVE to know that the game is still "on" or you risk very dodgy situations and that's exactly what happened.

He didn't have a clue at the moment BB called him, what appropriate behaviour was. It was like he seen her as some type of enemy.

Now him being a boxer means there was very little she could do to him to make him feel threatened or scared for his life. She never aggressively hit him or pinned him down or tried to headbutt him.

And if you think his actions are somehow ok in this society, you are very much mistaken.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

I empathise with your self-disclosure, but maintain you are projecting your experiences without sufficient evidence as to his intentions or thoughts.

Not at all, I can however sense when an atmosphere has soured that never leaves you.

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by MTVN

So messing around saying she wants a hug before going to sleep is now an instigator to being threatened like that?

Hazel was doing more than talking. Watch the videos FFS.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The whole thing was charged with sexual aggression from both, she tries to calm it down once or twice throughout but sort of keeps going with it. He doesn't actually get "nasty"... he thinks he's being sexually dominant, he doesn't realise she doesn't like it. The exact point where it goes too far (for her) is 3.35 where he grabs her neck and says "pipe down". Completely changes in tone there. The problem isn't what he said or did - which would have been fine if she was into it. Each to their own, right? The problem was that it should have been pretty clear and he should have realised that it was a step too far and she wasn't comfortable any more, but he didn't, he was too wrapped up in it to notice. Which really is a problem. When you're playing that sort of "game" you HAVE to know that the game is still "on" or you risk very dodgy situations and that's exactly what happened.

I think thats a very good post! Good analysis.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Hazel was doing more than talking. Watch the videos FFS.

There's no need to be so rude!
She did nothing to make him react in the way he did, stop trying to justify it, it's impossible.

[optimisticcynic]

My opinion does not significantly differ from Toy Soldier's other than the fact I feel they are equally to blame for commencing down the sexual roleplay route, with no adult discussion of boundaries or expectations, especially in the absence of any true knowledge of each other, and with any potential communication stifled by the pretence that their behaviour is borne of no sexual tension/energy. It's very similar to watching two boys wrestling and stating "this will end in tears" as they lack the ability to recognise or communicate escalation until it is too late. I still believe Daley meant Hazel no harm and probably thought she'd be aroused by his behaviour and in this sense, the situation has been sensationalised instead of both parties sharing responsibility.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

My opinion does not significantly differ from Toy Soldier's other than the fact I feel they are equally to blame for commencing down the sexual roleplay route, with no adult discussion of boundaries or expectations, especially in the absence of any true knowledge of each other, and with any potential communication stifled by the pretence that their behaviour is borne of no sexual tension/energy. It's very similar to watching two boys wrestling and stating "this will end in tears" as they lack the ability to recognise or communicate escalation until it is too late. I still believe Daley meant Hazel no harm and probably thought she'd be aroused by his behaviour and in this sense, the situation has been sensationalised instead of both parties sharing responsibility.

I 100% disagree, him muttering on the way to the diary room he just wanted his cover and to go to sleep says to me he wasn't thinking of getting amorous at all.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I 100% disagree, him muttering on the way to the diary room he just wanted his cover and to go to sleep says to me he wasn't thinking of getting amorous at all.

He's fully aware at this point that their behaviour's been flagged and he's likely pretty worried about his part in it with blood flow to his real brain being restored. Hence the child-like "She started it" response.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by optimisticcynic

He's fully aware at this point that their behaviour's been flagged and he's likely pretty worried about his part in it with blood flow to his real brain being restored. Hence the child-like "She started it" response.

Exactly he was childish and pathetic, using his huge frame to dominate like that. What a disgusting display of aggression. Stick to the ring you thug!

[PInternet]

Maybe I'm the crazy one but watching that didn't make me think Daley was being harmfully aggressive but more sexually-frustrated playfully aggressive and Hazel was completely goading it on. If she felt she was in danger, she would have asked him to stop, not pulled down his pants and then kept telling him to "do it" when he was "threatening" her. Like when he said "I'll finish you" and she said "I bet I'll finish you quicker". I mean, come the **** on.

[optimisticcynic]

Originally Posted by PInternet

Maybe I'm the crazy one but watching that didn't make me think Daley was being harmfully aggressive but more sexually-frustrated playfully aggressive and Hazel was completely goading it on. If she felt she was in danger, she would have asked him to stop, not pulled down his pants and then kept telling him to "do it" when he was "threatening" her. Like when he said "I'll finish you" and she said "I bet I'll finish you quicker". I mean, come the **** on.

Preach.