[Ammi]

Originally Posted by smeagol

its funny people assume were more civilized now that in the past but were not were worst.
its a act a game humans play designed by people to control us like pets for their own gain

we are all just animals bugs insects were the scum of the earth really no different to a maggot except we think were better than all other species and have some right to have heaven and a god etc but theres no god he was invented to keep us in line.

were never be civilized man has never stopped trying to kill eachother . we kill every animal there is. and why cause were the worst kind of predators.
religion is the biggest killer of all but it a excuse civilized people use to justifiy their actions

have the supermarkets run out of turkeys then your see just how civilized people really are lol.

..but that makes us 'civilised' though... that we don't just do things motivated by survival and nothing else, unfortunately and is 'human nature' for some people..if they're given something, it's left open to be abused/misused as well...

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I can understand what you're saying and I myself have a certain amount of distrust of the religion I was brought up in and why I choose not to practise it, so I do agree...more for the religion/beliefs than the people who practise it/I mean a large portion of the people and how for them, their religion gives them something positive in their lives/makes them better people in many ways...but maybe those beliefs make them 'worse' people in others, so maybe it all does balance itself out...hmmm, religious debates are my least favourite thing...

Amen to that. There's never an easy way to discuss it without it turning into a faith vs faithless free for all

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I mean like our rate of technological advancement has improved dramatically in the last 40 years in comparison to our entire history.

The guy on the radio was arguing that as a species we are finding it hard to adapt to a constant influx of new technology to replace social situations, work situations, exercise and leisure etc.

The guy was a bit long winded but I think he was making the point that we are on the road to decadence.

...as in, in general we want so much technology specifically...they build it, we want it, sort of thing...which encourages greed and then the 'out-doing/keep up with the Jones' factor..so more is built..bigger and better etc..and then that's the one we want..the latest model..and so it goes on..?...

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that makes us 'civilised' though... that we don't just do things motivated by survival and nothing else, unfortunately and is 'human nature' for some people..if they're given something, it's left open to be abused/misused as well...

all we do is survival though be it work or going to tescos. thats why people go mental when theirs one loaf of bread left or stuck in traffic , we act civilized but were not.
most of us eat meat which is living flesh we just package it nicely. otherwise we'd all be chasing cats and pigeons for lunch lol

uk u.s is more civilized than most countries i,ll give us that but what we gain in some ways they beat us in others.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...as in, in general we want so much technology specifically...they build it, we want it, sort of thing...which encourages greed and then the 'out-doing/keep up with the Jones' factor..so more is built..bigger and better etc..and then that's the one we want..the latest model..and so it goes on..?...

I think he was suggesting that eventually we will get to a point where pretty much everything is done for us. We want a cup of tea? A servitor will bring it to our sofa for us. We want a pizza? No problem. A click of a button will send an automaton round and place it before our very eyes.

We will have very little to do and with all that free time all we will do is indulge in debauchery and other pleasures of the flesh. He was a bit sensationalist but I would hate for that to unfold.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by smeagol

all we do is survival though be it work or going to tescos. thats why people go mental when theirs one loaf of bread left or stuck in traffic , we act civilized but were not.
most of us eat meat which is living flesh we just package it nicely. otherwise we'd all be chasing cats and pigeons for lunch lol

uk u.s is more civilized than most countries i,ll give us that but what we gain in some ways they beat us in others.

...a lot of people get luxuries at Tesco as well though..things they would 'survive' without, but I think I understand what you mean now..more a quality of life/values..?...

[Kyle]

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I think he was suggesting that eventually we will get to a point where pretty much everything is done for us. We want a cup of tea? A servitor will bring it to our sofa for us. We want a pizza? No problem. A click of a button will send an automaton round and place it before our very eyes.

We will have very little to do and with all that free time all we will do is indulge in debauchery and other pleasures of the flesh. He was a bit sensationalist but I would hate for that to unfold.

..it's like one of those futuristic Sci Fi movies, like Fifth Element..I see what he means potentially..yeah, it may or may not happen, I guess..if only we had a time machine, we could see how long it would take...I can't get the pizza atm because the one near me doesn't have a delivery service but I could get a Chinese takeaway at 'almost' the click of the button now...well, I would still have to talk to someone on the phone but I could envisage a time when you would do it all by tapping in different numbers for your choice maybe.....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

..yeah, I do see what he means but do you not think that we see people's true nature/character by getting to know them anyway..and it's not always bad but if you are suspicious etc..then maybe you'll only see the 'bad/negative' which everyone has anyway, because we're all flawed...but that doesn't make us 'uncivilised' as such....

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah, I do see what he means but do you not think that we see people's true nature/character by getting to know them anyway..and it's not always bad but if you are suspicious etc..then maybe you'll only see the 'bad/negative' which everyone has anyway, because we're all flawed...but that doesn't make us 'uncivilised' as such....

Yes Ammi I was probably a bit harsh saying 'true nature' because at the end of the day it's not our fault we need to eat, have sex drives etc..

What worries me though is that if we end up in a dystopian future with far too few resources to sustain us, what our base needs will do to us. We can act civilised because for the most part in the U.K we have enough to fulfill basic human needs.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's like one of those futuristic Sci Fi movies, like Fifth Element..I see what he means potentially..yeah, it may or may not happen, I guess..if only we had a time machine, we could see how long it would take...I can't get the pizza atm because the one near me doesn't have a delivery service but I could get a Chinese takeaway at 'almost' the click of the button now...well, I would still have to talk to someone on the phone but I could envisage a time when you would do it all by tapping in different numbers for your choice maybe.....

That's it in a nutshell really.

Fortunately if it ever comes to that I don't think any of us will be here to see it anyway.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Yes Ammi I was probably a bit harsh saying 'true nature' because at the end of the day it's not our fault we need to eat, have sex drives etc..

What worries me though is that if we end up in a dystopian future with far too few resources to sustain us, what our base needs will do to us. We can act civilised because for the most part in the U.K we have enough to fulfill basic human needs.

..I agree, because we are and do have 'basic animal instincts'..that's what drive's most people to a degree..and then we have the complications of emotions/conscience/empathy/compassion etc...and then also all the technology available, which is open to as much abuse/misuse, as it is a positive thing...what's that saying...'it's not the gun which kills, it's the person pulling the trigger..'..something like that...

..I guess, my general basic philosophy in life, is that it's filled with fairly rubbish stuff for most people..day to day..and also good stuff as well...'being positive/seeing the best is people and things' won't change the rubbish stuff, it'll be there anyway ande it'll naturally bring you down..but I just try not to become too absorbed in it to the extent that I overlook the good things/positives and they just pass me by unnoticed...so I think I've had a rubbish day, when actually, like most...it's been fairly mixed ..if that makes sense....

[Kyle]

It does make sense Ammi and it's a far better philosophy than a pathetic cynic like me.

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I do see Smeagol's point and I have thought about it quite a bit.

If you take the veneer of civilisation away from people then we will see our true nature.

have you seen that latest movie the purge its a interesting concept and gets you thinking about human nature and what were really like.
basically the govement has given 1 day a year that all crime is legal even murder , so the other 364 days theres no crime we all live in peace.
but on that day the civilized end up killing cause its their natural urge and are free to do so. while some end up killing to survive.

always interests me people and whay they do and act like they do. its like high society people all prim and proper but known for orgies and chasing foxes lol not so prim and proper after all as were led to believe.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by smeagol

have you seen that latest movie the purge its a interesting concept and gets you thinking about human nature and what were really like.
basically the govement has given 1 day a year that all crime is legal even murder , so the other 364 days theres no crime we all live in peace.
but on that day the civilized end up killing cause its their natural urge and are free to do so. while some end up killing to survive.

always interests me people and whay they do and act like they do. its like high society people all prim and proper but known for orgies and chasing foxes lol not so prim and proper after all as were led to believe.

It is an interesting concept I shall look out for that film.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

It does make sense Ammi and it's a far better philosophy than a pathetic cynic like me.

...hmmmm, not necessarily a cynic, maybe more of a 'realist' in that I maybe overlook/excuse/tolerate/try to understand bad behaviour etc more than some may do but that's not necessarily a good/positive thing either because some people are just 'bad' and shouldn't be excused/understood...it is. I think, the hardest thing to get that balance and a balance in life generally...because you have to feel negative things as well as positive ones, otherwise you're just another extreme....

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmmm, not necessarily a cynic, maybe more of a 'realist' in that I maybe overlook/excuse/tolerate/try to understand bad behaviour etc more than some may do but that's not necessarily a good/positive thing either because some people are just 'bad' and shouldn't be excused/understood...it is. I think, the hardest thing to get that balance and a balance in life generally...because you have to feel negative things as well as positive ones, otherwise you're just another extreme....

True.

I don't think cynicism really does much good. Most of us don't need a cynic to point out all the negative attributes of the human race but a cynic tends to just complain which solves nothing.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

True.

I don't think cynicism really does much good. Most of us don't need a cynic to point out all the negative attributes of the human race but a cynic tends to just complain which solves nothing.

..yeah, I think we certainly don't need our own negatives/flaws pointing out..or a lot of us don't..(I mean just general things..not breaking laws/harming people etc..)... because we fairly much feel rubbish about them ourselves anyway and are quite often our own worst critics and cynics...so longs as we're not oblivious to them either, then we pretty much do a great self critical assessment....and so long as we treat others with respect/the same as well....

[Kizzy]

The issue I would say is socialisation, if done well you have decent free thinking, empathic, spirited individuals with the tools to go on to inspire, motivate and educate the next generation.
That is hard enough to achieve, but in a lot of ways hindered by the rules of religion and the freedom of the internet.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The issue I would say is socialisation, if done well you have decent free thinking, empathic, spirited individuals with the tools to go on to inspire, motivate and educate the next generation.
That is hard enough to achieve, but in a lot of ways hindered by the rules of religion and the freedom of the internet.

Yes
Free Schools are helping
with parents having better control of their Future

[Kizzy]

I disagree about cynicism, I would say a certain degree is healthy, to probe, question and examine is good and shows an enquiring mind.
Too many now are spoon fed information without stopping to ponder whether or not they agree... This is the silent majority.
The saddest thing I saw was an article online from the BBC ' Do conspiracy theories undermine democracy?'....
Which in a nutshell said it was undemocratic to question authority, how orwellian is that?
We must maintain cynicism! it is what separates us from drones.
what's next to be called into question honesty?.... oh, we already have when so called 'whistleblowers' are pilloried for informing on bad practice, illegal activity and fraud.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes
Free Schools are helping
with parents having better control of their Future

I wouldn't say the free schools are helping... Why would anyone want their child taught in a school where the staff are not qualified teachers?
As an important tool in socialisation I would expect that those with the responsibility of moulding minds was competent.

[Roy Mars III]

what is considered civilized though? I would think that most people have different answers to what a civilized society is and would be.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I wouldn't say the free schools are helping... Why would anyone want their child taught in a school where the staff are not qualified teachers?
As an important tool in socialisation I would expect that those with the responsibility of moulding minds was competent.

But many are better than teachers
and getting better results.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

But many are better than teachers
and getting better results.

I think we both know that's rubbish...
Next you will be telling me G4S are better than the police and nurses don't need to be qualified....