[arista]

Gender segregation is 'not completely alien to our culture',
says Universities UK chief





We are now going Crazy




"The row over segregation has sparked
protests from students and shadow
business secretary Chuka Umunna
said he was ''horrified'' by
Universities UK's position.
In November a Universities
UK report report presented some
hypothetical case studies which
come up on campuses, including whether
a speaker from an ultra-orthodox
religious group requests an audience
is segregated by gender. "


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-UK-chief.html

[fingers]

This country is going bloody bonkers!

[arista]

Originally Posted by TinyFingeringTim

This country is going bloody bonkers!

It does not help
with the boss of a Uni
who agrees with it.

[Nedusa]

Welcome to Great Britanistan.....!!!!

[user104658]

Voluntary segregation is not apartheid; this would only come into play where guest speakers have requested it and University is not school... attendance of these sorts of events is purely optional. It's self-guided study - you go along if it interests you. If you don't like the guest speaker's seating plan, then don't attend his speaking event. If no one attends his event, then he will not be booked to speak again. Simple as that, really.

Essentially, there are only two reasons that someone would be attending such an event. The first being that they feel like they will identify with or agree with the speaker, the second is for purely educational purposes. If the latter, first hand experience of such segregation in action is a valuable learning experience in itself - you are in a stronger position to argue against something if you have actually experienced it.


If this starts being suggested or enforced in day-to-day lectures or seminars, then we have a problem. As it stands, it would be more restrictive of social freedoms to expressly disallow a speaker at an optional event to put a seating plan in place than it would be to say;

It's their event, they can run it how they want to, and you are free to do what you want with that. You could refuse to attend, you could stage a demonstration outside the lecture theatre itself at the time, you could attend the lecture and speak up...

THAT is what a University education is about. Not moaning and whining and asking the "people in charge" to "ban stuff".

[Livia]

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

[smudgie]

Isn't it all just hypothetical so far?

[Jordan.]

Let's extend Salmans ban

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

Did you read the article? It's about segregation not exclusion; e.g. females on the lefthand side of the theatre, males on the right. People being turned away isn't mentioned at all. In fact, it's specifically mentioned that there would be issues if there was to be a notion of advantage (e.g. males at the front and therefore more visible to engage in debate).

Where does it end, otherwise? Who decides where and when it's appropriate to divide a room? In several psychology classes I attended, the classes were asked to sit in various places, for reasons that didn't become clear until towards the end of the hour. And yes, this included male / female divides, but also by age group, clothing colours, etc.

Would this be "banned", too?

I can easily foresee a scenario where a guest lecturer might segregate a lecture hall specifically to later in the lesson make a point about gender segregation in religion (or society in general).

But my main point is, even where it IS a speaker who genuinely wants to segregate, University is a time for finding your voice and having your say. If you don't like his message, you bloody well go along and tell him so... you don't go whining to the "teachers / authorities" like a 12 year old to get them to "ban it". You stand on your own two feet like an adult and state your point.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Santa-gnome-ears

Isn't it all just hypothetical so far?

No in London its now doing that
due to Muslims

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every event should be open to everyone, always. If someone can be turned away at the door purely because they're the wrong sex - be them male or female - then it's wrong.

Bang on Right Livia

[michael21]

Originally Posted by arista

It does not help
with the boss of a Uni
who agrees with it.

time for new Uni boss

[Marsh.]

So, they're coming into our country and demanding we adopt to their rules?

Yet whinge when we question their own personal codes of conduct?

I don't wish to sound racist at all, but either deal with it or bloody go home.

[MTVN]

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

[arista]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

It may be to do with the Muslim Funders of that University


There was a Angry Debate on Ch4News , a day ago

[user104658]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article

It's fairly evident that pretty much no one commenting on this thread read the article... given that you're right, there's no mention of Muslims at all, and also, it also doesn't say anything anywhere about anyone not being allowed into lectures.

[arista]

The Muslim was on the Ch4 news Angry Debate

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

So, they're coming into our country and demanding we adopt to their rules?

Yet whinge when we question their own personal codes of conduct?

I don't wish to sound racist at all, but either deal with it or bloody go home.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

The Muslim was on the Ch4 news Angry Debate

Not THE Muslim, surely?

[arista]

http://www.channel4.com/news/univers...n-demo-protest

2 Video reports

Go to the 2nd Video one down
Studio Angry Debate
with the lady from the independent


"There is a fear of offending the Muslim community but there are a lot of modern Muslims that would never allow gender segregation."

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

http://www.channel4.com/news/univers...n-demo-protest

2 Video reports

Go to the 2nd Video one down
Studio Angry Debate
with the lady and the independent


"There is a fear of offending the Muslim community but there are a lot of modern Muslims that would never allow gender segregation."

"the organisation published a report last month saying universities could segregate by gender during talks from external speakers."

These are optional, anyone who doesn't want anything to do with this doesn't have to go. There is no aspect of force here, this is not apartheid, this is a complete non-issue. But of course, people will take any excuse to break out the war drums... especially thoughtless feminists (there is some wisdom in some feminism - there are also a lot of people involved just because they like to have something to be annoyed about ) and xenophobes. This "debate" appeals to both, I guess.

Like I said - if they start allowing this to be implemented by University staff in standard course lectures or somehow across the board, then there is obviously a massive problem. Allowing it to be requested by a small number of super-religious guest speakers whose lectures are attended completely out of personal interest? It just isn't an issue. The alternative is probably that these hyper-religious nutjobs won't come to speak at the University at all, which would be a shame, because a lecture like this would be very ACADEMICALLY INTERESTING to anyone studying theology.

But screw academia, right? Who cares if there's something interesting to be observed or an opportunity for a cultural issue to be examined up close. People are offended . Call the police immediately, and immigration. Send these curry-smelling foreign johnnies back, eh?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

this.

As usual, articles like this have had the desired effect and people are posting the usual outrage, yet it doesn't even mention Islam in the article. I think thats very interesting.

[Livia]

"In November a Universities UK report presented some hypothetical case studies which come up on campuses, including whether a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group requests an audience is segregated by gender.

The report states that university officials must consider both freedom of speech obligations and discrimination and equality laws when considering such a request."

How many other religions apart from Islam are vociferous in requesting the segregation of sexes? I kind of resent the "racist" and "xenophobe" comments when it's clear that the students are against the segregation of the sexes for any reason, including segregation on religious grounds.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

What do Muslims even have to do with this? Nowhere are they or Islam mentioned in the article, they raise the hypothetical situation that there be "a speaker from an ultra-orthodox religious group request an audience is segregated by gender" but why would that be exclusive to Islam, to me it seems to be referring more to ultra-orthodox Judaism if anything

I can't remember ever being asked to sit somewhere specific because I'm a female Jew. And if I was, I would be JUST as much against it as I would be if a Muslim woman was asked the same thing.

I can't see how a comparison can be drawn between Judaism in the UK and Islam in the UK, because there is no correlation at all.

[Nedusa]

No Segregation by Gender or Race or Religion or age or skin colour.... we have moved on from that **** !!!

We must not allow our accepted norms be changed because some minority group would prefer it that way.

No No No.......this is the slippery slope next thing all our women folk will have to wear headscarves and then veils and then the full Tent.