Originally Posted by lostalex

Umm, my country? Like YOUR country, most employee's get that through the private companies they work for, but for public employee's, i'm pretty sure American public employee's get paid vacation and sick leave, so WTF are you talking about?

Are you denying that American public employees get sick leave and vacation time? because you are very wrong if you think that.

I don't want to call you a liar, but you are implying falsehoods if you are saying that American government employees don't receive paid vacation and sick leave.

Firstly, there is no legislation in America that requires companies to pay holiday pay in (roughly 4 weeks per year in the rest of the developed world). About half of the people in the us (maybe a touch more) actually receive that benefit, and it averages out to about 11-13 days.

Secondly, there are states in the US that are actively trying to destroy workers rights, such as Wisconsin and Ohio, so they can continue in the race to the bottom with policies such as "right to work" where they are trying to make it possible for companies to pay whatever amount they can get people to work for.

[arista]

Youtube video

Yesterday

Originally Posted by Livia

Wow. Probably the most irritated post I've seen you make for a long time.

Not interested in carrying on this discussion thanks.

That's fine, but please don't assign irritation in my post that wasn't there when I wrote it, thanks.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Firstly, there is no legislation in America that requires companies to pay holiday pay in (roughly 4 weeks per year in the rest of the developed world). About half of the people in the us (maybe a touch more) actually receive that benefit, and it averages out to about 11-13 days.

Secondly, there are states in the US that are actively trying to destroy workers rights, such as Wisconsin and Ohio, so they can continue in the race to the bottom with policies such as "right to work" where they are trying to make it possible for companies to pay whatever amount they can get people to work for.

I see, changing the goal posts now that you've been proved wrong. you said that American public workers don't get paid vacation and sick leave...now you are changing the goal posts, trying to manipulate what you said.

You need to get your facts straight before you say things, that way you don't have to try to change the subject onto something else when you get embarrassed that you were wrong.

I expected better from you Jesus.

Originally Posted by lostalex

I see, changing the goal posts now that you've been proved wrong. you said that American public workers don't get paid vacation and sick leave...now you are changing the goal posts, trying to manipulate what you said.

you need to get your facts straight before you say things, that way you don't have to try to change the subject onto soothing else when you get embarrassed that you were wrong.

That's just your interpretation of something that isn't there. My reply to you stands up equally well now as it did when I wrote it.

My quote is there for all to see, and yet somehow it is different to the way you have tried to quote me in this post.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

That's just your interpretation of something that isn't there. My reply to you stands up equally well now as it did when I wrote it.

My quote is there for all to see, and yet somehow it is different to the way you have tried to quote me in this post.

yes, it's just magically different.. lol

humility is not in your vocabulary. not surprising from a gawwwd.

Originally Posted by lostalex

yes, it's just magically different.. lol

humility is not in your vocabulary.

OK, Alex. My words are there for everyone to see, and they can see that my post remains unedited.

Not sure what the humility dig is about either. Equally, I expected better from you Alex.

I'll make this my last post in this thread so everyone can get back to slagging of the strikers.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

OK, Alex. My words are there for everyone to see, and they can see that my post remains unedited.

Not sure what the humility dig is about either. Equally, I expected better from you Alex.

I'll make this my last post in this thread so everyone can get back to slagging of the strikers.

you're upset about something, and i don't think it's about the Tube strike.

[arista]

No Strike for tonight - A Deal was worked out, for now
Talks will go on until April

Ref : ITV1 London News

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

People who work for London Transport are paid pretty well, even the unskilled workers. And they get free travel. But hey, if they want more, they should just walk out until they get what they want, never mind all the other people with families to feed trying to get to work.

How well is 'pretty well'?
it seems across the board whether teacher, transport worker or oil refinery workers pay, conditions and pensions are being chipped away at.
Is it not within your rights to attempt to protect your livelihood and future?
Having an 'I'm alright jack' attitude is great until it begins to affect your sector I guess.

[Livia]

I'd like to thank the London Underground for giving me back the Circle Line yesterday. I spoke to the chap actually working in the ticket office (which is what the strike was all about for anyone who doesn't know), and to the chap at the barrier, both told me they were against strike action and thought there were better ways of flagging up their displeasure than inconveniencing the public and losing day's pay. But hey ho... the militants will have their day off, I guess.

[Kizzy]

Where is millie tant? TWO employees that were asked you say.... well that must be representative of all tube employees.
I'm well aware it's due to job security, was someone confused I hadn't noticed.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is millie tant? TWO employees that were asked you say.... well that must be representative of all tube employees.
I'm well aware it's due to job security, was someone confused I hadn't noticed.

Amazingly enough, I wasn't referring to you. It was Jesus who said he wasn't sure what the strike was about.

Yes. Two employees. I made that clear, didn't I? I didn't claim it was more... Neither did I claim it was representive of the whole of London Transport. It is, however, two more than you've spoken to, so your sarcasm is somewhat misplaced.

It may have been only two people but they were of the mind that striking wasn't going to get them what they wanted, and I thought that mindset was worth sharing in case everyone thinks walking out of your job everytime something isn't going your way is the way to secure your job these days. They need the public on their side, and strike action that disrupts not only people going to work, but tourists who spend a lot of cash in the capital and consequently isn't a great PR exercise for the union, nor for London Transport

[arista]

Yes a great film
showing Corruption of Unions and Bosses

[Kizzy]

No sarcasm here, In every given scenario we can't all be privvy to such information, you were again very lucky.
It's hard to get the public onside when they don't appear to give a damn, it's not their livelihood that's threatened is it?

[MTVN]

Ticket offices are a waste of money anyway, damn unions striking because they want to keep their hugely expensive cosy offices despite only 3% of people using them

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No sarcasm here, In every given scenario we can't all be privvy to such information, you were again very lucky.
It's hard to get the public onside when they don't appear to give a damn, it's not their livelihood that's threatened is it?

You're a member of the public. So am I. I don't want people to lose their jobs and I quite like having ticket offices rather than faceless automated ticket machines. I have an oyster card, but I'm thinking tourists and visitors find it better to speak to someone in a ticket office. I think the majority of people do give a damn. And more people in work means less benefits, and more money going back into the economy. But the Great British Public doesn't like being held to ransom. There are far more effective ways of gaining people's support than striking.

For the record, London Underground has said that there will be no compulsory redundancies as a result of the planned ticket office closures.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You're a member of the public. So am I. I don't want people to lose their jobs and I quite like having ticket offices rather than faceless automated ticket machines. I have an oyster card, but I'm thinking tourists and visitors find it better to speak to someone in a ticket office. I think the majority of people do give a damn. And more people in work means less benefits, and more money going back into the economy. But the Great British Public doesn't like being held to ransom. There are far more effective ways of gaining people's support than striking.

For the record, London Underground has said that there will be no compulsory redundancies as a result of the planned ticket office closures.

Are you suggesting that they haven't exhausted other avenues?

This is despite London Underground making clear to unions and staff a range of commitments including:

Every Tube station will be visibly staffed and controlled by LU staff during operating hours
There will be a job for everyone who wants to continue to be part of our organisation and who is ready to be flexible
Any operational changes will be done without compulsory redundancies where we can collaborate to make change happen
We will involve staff in any plans to grow, develop and change services
We will do this fairly and support people through change

These are not guarantees, and are rather ambiguous 'commitments' .

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ive/29467.aspx

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you suggesting that they haven't exhausted other avenues?

This is despite London Underground making clear to unions and staff a range of commitments including:

Every Tube station will be visibly staffed and controlled by LU staff during operating hours
There will be a job for everyone who wants to continue to be part of our organisation and who is ready to be flexible
Any operational changes will be done without compulsory redundancies where we can collaborate to make change happen
We will involve staff in any plans to grow, develop and change services
We will do this fairly and support people through change

These are not guarantees, and are rather ambiguous 'commitments' .

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ive/29467.aspx

I'm suggesting that it's six of one, and half a dozen of the other. The union would have us believe that all the bosses are moustache-twirling villains and the bosses would have us believe all union members are card-carrying Communists. And no, I don't think the unions have exhausted all other avenues.

It's interesting that you emboldened the bit about requiring staff to be flexible. Like it's something unthinkable to the union. Everyone has to be flexible in the workplace these days, it's the way it is. Sadly the days of lifelong jobs, where you drilled the same hole in the same place for forty years is long gone.

I've just seen Bob Crow on the Politics Show. I don't always agree with him, but I just can't help admiring him. I particularly liked the quote he used from Henry Ford who told a worker "See that robot over there, he doesn't have a union card", to which the worker replied "See that robot over there, he can't buy a car". Very true... and closing ticket offices is another way the human face is being eradicated from business and service and putting people out of work. Which is why, for instance, I refuse to use self-checkout at supermarkets. But I still don't think that strike action is the right one or they will lose the support of people who could support them, ie their customers.