[arista]

One Jewish person said
she did not like all these special police
as its making the show up more


The Home Sec., May
has said she will increase the Jewish protection
and that she never thought she
would hear people saying they will leave
the UK?

http://news.sky.com/story/1410202/ma...-anti-semitism

[DemolitionRed]

There is no doubt that anti-Semitism is on the up from Muslim communities in Europe but I don't believe this hostage crisis in Paris was a deliberate target on Jews. I believe it was just an easy target in a desperate attempt to get those other terrorists out of that printing works.

Just as the Muslim religious leaders in Europe must voice their condemnation on IS, so must the leaders of European Jewish organisations condemn oppressive Israeli actions such as last summer's military actions. Why is it that Muslims can not be seen to support the extremists in Syria whilst the Jews can openly support what is going on in Israel.

It feels as if we are on the verge of an anti-Muslim backlash.

[Livia]

In 2012 a teacher and three children were shot dead in Toulouse, southern France. This hasn't just started with the Paris killings, it's been going on for a long time. The Jewish community are a massive target, although it saddens me to see that the community is having to be protected by armed police.

DemolitionRed mentions Jews "openly supporting Israel". Well, I don't know many Jews who do actively and openly support the Israeli state in everything they do. As for last year's military action, it started when three young Jewish hitchhikers were murdered by Hamas.

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

In 2012 a teacher and three children were shot dead in Toulouse, southern France. This hasn't just started with the Paris killings, it's been going on for a long time. The Jewish community are a massive target, although it saddens me to see that the community is having to be protected by armed police.

DemolitionRed mentions Jews "openly supporting Israel". Well, I don't know many Jews who do actively and openly support the Israeli state in everything they do. As for last year's military action, it started when three young Jewish hitchhikers were murdered by Hamas.

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

It does more than make me 'sad' - it makes me angry and bewilders me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

If we're talking about innocent Jews and innocent Muslims in each case, surely it would be "sad" if people weren't concerned about a potential backlash against Muslims? Innocent people getting caught up in other people's bull**** politics is always sad, no matter what their religious leanings... Right? I worry about this kicking off and ANY ordinary person - Jew, Muslim, Christian, WWE wrestling fanatic - being caught in the crossfire. It genuinely should not matter even a tiny little bit which holy book they happen to have in the bedside drawer.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If we're talking about innocent Jews and innocent Muslims in each case, surely it would be "sad" if people weren't concerned about a potential backlash against Muslims? Innocent people getting caught up in other people's bull**** politics is always sad, no matter what their religious leanings... Right? I worry about this kicking off and ANY ordinary person - Jew, Muslim, Christian, WWE wrestling fanatic - being caught in the crossfire. It genuinely should not matter even a tiny little bit which holy book they happen to have in the bedside drawer.

Yeah, I agree with all that. Except I don't see the Muslim community being protected by armed guards. So while I hope that no innocent Muslim is caught in the crossfire or attacked by some misguided fanatic with a skewed sense of right and wrong, right now I'm giving more concern to a community that intelligence has shown to be at such a high risk of violence that they're having to be guarded by armed personnel.

[user104658]

Maybe it is to do with the level of actual physical threat, it's impossible to be sure as either way they obviously can't release too many details of their gathered intelligence without revealing how it was gathered and endangering sources, but I do have to say that I strongly suspect there are other motivations for the response. In part, at least.

That is, if the innocent Jewish community in European countries starts being openly attacked, the political situation will completely explode. Forget **** hitting the fan - we're talking about a massive tornado hitting a sewage treatment plant.

Muslims being threatened and attacked? Not such a problem, politically speaking. I'm sure there would be a response to any attack against any innocent group... But I'm skeptical that they would take the same sort of security precautions in response to intelligence about a potential threat.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe it is to do with the level of actual physical threat, it's impossible to be sure as either way they obviously can't release too many details of their gathered intelligence without revealing how it was gathered and endangering sources, but I do have to say that I strongly suspect there are other motivations for the response. In part, at least.

That is, if the innocent Jewish community in European countries starts being openly attacked, the political situation will completely explode. Forget **** hitting the fan - we're talking about a massive tornado hitting a sewage treatment plant.

Muslims being threatened and attacked? Not such a problem, politically speaking. I'm sure there would be a response to any attack against any innocent group... But I'm skeptical that they would take the same sort of security precautions in response to intelligence about a potential threat.

I know about intelligence gathering and I'm aware of the processes involved. If intelligence shows that a particular group is at risk of attack then that group will be protected - as much as it is possible to protect them. To suggest that if another group is threatened they wouldn't be so concerned about level of protection because it isn't such a political hot potato is really a sweeping and erroneous indictment of our security services.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim, in fact I have no faith. I am pro Jews and pro Muslims...just wanted to be clear I'm not taking sides here.

There have been random attacks on Jews because they were Jews and there have been random attacks on Muslims because they were Muslim. Those attacks are aimed with precision against people with a certain faith; however, I don't believe the attacks at the deli in France was targeted at Jews, but a random act against the west. Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't read otherwise.

I go on two political forums and I'm sick to the back teeth of reading the more recent anti Muslim hatred openly spilled out. I'm sick of walking past newspaper stands with screaming headlines about Islam and how none of us are safe. There is a lot of propaganda to incite our fear.

If you read the history pre-war nazi Germany, you will read about the civil unrest the government and popular media did towards the Jewish communities. They demonized the Jews for years and turned a nation into Jew haters. Something uncomfortably similar is happening now towards the Muslims, not only in the middle east but right here in the UK and across Europe.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I know about intelligence gathering and I'm aware of the processes involved. If intelligence shows that a particular group is at risk of attack then that group will be protected - as much as it is possible to protect them. To suggest that if another group is threatened they wouldn't be so concerned about level of protection because it isn't such a political hot potato is really a sweeping and erroneous indictment of our security services.

I'm not saying that they would be lax in their response / fail to protect Muslims. I'm suggesting that the level of response in this case might be disproportionate to the intelligence that has actually been received. We do of course know that there are different alert levels - I'm just saying it's possible that they might be artificially stepping up that level because of the potential fallout.

Again, I'm not saying I know this to be the case, because obviously us civvies are not given information detailed enough to make that call. I'm just saying it's feasible. And that Jews being threatened isn't any "sadder" than Muslim being threatened, if those being threatened are innocent. And let's not pretend that innocent Muslim people havent been attacked and threatened across Europe in the last week.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim, in fact I have no faith. I am pro Jews and pro Muslims...just wanted to be clear I'm not taking sides here.

There have been random attacks on Jews because they were Jews and there have been random attacks on Muslims because they were Muslim. Those attacks are aimed with precision against people with a certain faith; however, I don't believe the attacks at the deli in France was targeted at Jews, but a random act against the west. Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't read otherwise.

I go on two political forums and I'm sick to the back teeth of reading the more recent anti Muslim hatred openly spilled out. I'm sick of walking past newspaper stands with screaming headlines about Islam and how none of us are safe. There is a lot of propaganda to incite our fear.

If you read the history pre-war nazi Germany, you will read about the civil unrest the government and popular media did towards the Jewish communities. They demonized the Jews for years and turned a nation into Jew haters. Something uncomfortably similar is happening now towards the Muslims, not only in the middle east but right here in the UK and across Europe.

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying that they would be lax in their response / fail to protect Muslims. I'm suggesting that the level of response in this case might be disproportionate to the intelligence that has actually been received. We do of course know that there are different alert levels - I'm just saying it's possible that they might be artificially stepping up that level because of the potential fallout.

Again, I'm not saying I know this to be the case, because obviously us civvies are not given information detailed enough to make that call. I'm just saying it's feasible. And that Jews being threatened isn't any "sadder" than Muslim being threatened, if those being threatened are innocent. And let's not pretend that innocent Muslim people havent been attacked and threatened across Europe in the last week.

And they might not be artificially stepping up the level, and it's real threat.

The day Muslims in this country are so threatened that their community is given an armed guard, them my thoughts will be with them. The Jews are being threatened with bombs and guns. The Muslim community in this country are potentially being targeted by some brain-dead knuckle-draggers who don't understand the difference between being a Muslim and being a terrorist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

theresa may is one fake bitch

god almighty

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

theresa may is one fake bitch

god almighty

Says the man with an avi of Katie Price...

Yeah, though, she's a bloody disaster. Although she hasn't made this call, she is the mouthpiece of people who are actually in charge of the facts.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe it is to do with the level of actual physical threat, it's impossible to be sure as either way they obviously can't release too many details of their gathered intelligence without revealing how it was gathered and endangering sources, but I do have to say that I strongly suspect there are other motivations for the response. In part, at least.

That is, if the innocent Jewish community in European countries starts being openly attacked, the political situation will completely explode. Forget **** hitting the fan - we're talking about a massive tornado hitting a sewage treatment plant.

Muslims being threatened and attacked? Not such a problem, politically speaking. I'm sure there would be a response to any attack against any innocent group... But I'm skeptical that they would take the same sort of security precautions in response to intelligence about a potential threat.

The only people Muslims have to worry about attacking them is other extremist Muslims, especially if the first group of Muslims had the balls to stand and publicly state they had had enough of the cold blooded mass murder perpetrated allegedly in their name.



.

[kirklancaster]

Can we take this back a little so someone can perhaps explain to me just why there is this 'wave' of antisemitism in Europe and the UK?

What have any Jews done to deserve this?

Are any extreme Jewish terrorist groups currently attempting to conquer every country in the world by any barbaric, murderous means it may take, in order to usurp the indigenous peoples of those countries and install Halakhah?

Have any extreme Jewish terrorist groups declared war on the West and abducted and beheaded innocent and helpless victims in cold blood?

Have any Rabbis preached hatred for the West and incited murder and terrorism against non-Jews in UK synagogues?

Have any extreme Jewish groups openly attacked innocent Muslims in the UK or Europe?

Have any UK -based Jewish individuals murdered any off-duty British soldiers on the streets of London or anywhere else in the UK?

If they have, then please enlighten me because I know of no instances where the above has occurred and I am totally baffled why antisemitism is rearing its evil head again here or in Europe.

I am not saying that the majority of ordinary Muslims are Islamic Fundamentalists - though in recent polls a larger percentage than envisaged supported certain terrorist/Jihadist actions - but surely, there should logically be a greater need of extra protection for ordinary Muslims than Jews, in light of the daily preponderance of terrorist atrocities being perpetrated in the name of Allah, and the inescapable fact that Islamic Fundamentalists are indeed Muslims -- extremist Muslims though they undoubtedly are.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

The only people Muslims have to worry about attacking them is other extremist Muslims, especially if the first group of Muslims had the balls to stand and publicly state they had had enough of the cold blooded mass murder perpetrated allegedly in their name.
.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Can we take this back a little so someone can perhaps explain to me just why there is this 'wave' of antisemitism in Europe and the UK?

What have any Jews done to deserve this?

Are any extreme Jewish terrorist groups currently attempting to conquer every country in the world by any barbaric, murderous means it may take, in order to usurp the indigenous peoples of those countries and install Halakhah?

Have any extreme Jewish terrorist groups declared war on the West and abducted and beheaded innocent and helpless victims in cold blood?

Have any Rabbis preached hatred for the West and incited murder and terrorism against non-Jews in UK synagogues?

Have any extreme Jewish groups openly attacked innocent Muslims in the UK or Europe?

Have any UK -based Jewish individuals murdered any off-duty British soldiers on the streets of London or anywhere else in the UK?

If they have, then please enlighten me because I know of no instances where the above has occurred and I am totally baffled why antisemitism is rearing its evil head again here or in Europe.

I am not saying that the majority of ordinary Muslims are Islamic Fundamentalists - though in recent polls a larger percentage than envisaged supported certain terrorist/Jihadist actions - but surely, there should logically be a greater need of extra protection for ordinary Muslims than Jews, in light of the daily preponderance of terrorist atrocities being perpetrated in the name of Allah, and the inescapable fact that Islamic Fundamentalists are indeed Muslims -- extremist Muslims though they undoubtedly are.

I think innocent Jewish people are sometimes targeted as retaliation for the perceived crimes of their hardline Israeli cousins.



.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

The only people Muslims have to worry about attacking them is other extremist Muslims, especially if the first group of Muslims had the balls to stand and publicly state they had had enough of the cold blooded mass murder perpetrated allegedly in their name.



.

The way things are going, I'm pretty sure that's not entirely true is it.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The way things are going, I'm pretty sure that's not entirely true is it.

No not entirely , especially if the extremist elements wreak havoc in the UK and hundreds of Innocent British christians die . Then yes I agree the right wing fascist EDL types will be shaving their heads and cleaning their doc martins in preparation for the coming religious war.






.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

An amazing post Livia as are all your others on this thread.
A very worrying and sad issue as the topic but your posts are a wonderful and informed read.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

Yes they Pre Planned to hit that "Kosher" supermarket
they are saying the Leader of these attacks was in
Greece?

[Nedusa]

I see today that the Muslim Council of the UK have criticised The Govt for sending out a letter to over 1,000 Mosques asking that Islamic religious leaders look at ways to combat extremism and radicalisation of young Muslims.

After the carnage of Paris and a whole host of Islamic terrorist atrocities worldwide, the main threat to peace in our time is the radicalisation of young Muslims to take up arms and kill innocent civilians in the name of Islam. We have waited to see what the majority of peaceful Muslims would do, how they would respond .... We waited and waited and to date very little has been said by this large group of people.

So after the latest atrocity the Govt's patience is starting to wear thin and they think it is only fitting given these circumstances to put out a message to Islamic leaders to stand up for their peaceful faith and say NO murder in my name.

But what is the response.... Sneering criticism of the Govt for sending out a letter, yes believe it or not they are upset at receiving this letter, a letter David Cameron today stood up and said was fair,just,moderate and long overdue.

So where does that leave us....?? Why will moderate Muslims not stand up and be counted ?

My personal view is slightly controversial but I believe the majority of Muslims agree with the terrorists aims just NOT their methods.

I believe they agree with wanting an Islamic state and sharia law and all the trappings, I have never heard in 20 years any moderate Muslim stand up and say no they like the UK being a Christian liberal democracy and would vote if given a choice to keep it that way.

So I applaud The Govt for finally starting to ask the question of our Muslim brothers, if you want to defeat this horrible terrorist scourge then you have to stand up and state you are a peaceful Muslim living in a western liberal Christian democracy and you have no desire for that to change.
You respect the majority Christian view and are happy to peacefully co- exist in an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust.

Why oh why can we never hear this message......just a very loud public silence.





.

[arista]

"Muslim Council of the UK have criticised The Govt for sending out a letter to over 1,000 Mosques"

Yes Labour moan about it
but do not give example of their letter


Fecking Labour

[user104658]

Does it have to be a "Christian" or "Muslim" anything? Can we not AT LEAST keep this **** in all of it's forms away from being an official government stance of any kind?