[Livia]

In 2012 a teacher and three children were shot dead in Toulouse, southern France. This hasn't just started with the Paris killings, it's been going on for a long time. The Jewish community are a massive target, although it saddens me to see that the community is having to be protected by armed police.

DemolitionRed mentions Jews "openly supporting Israel". Well, I don't know many Jews who do actively and openly support the Israeli state in everything they do. As for last year's military action, it started when three young Jewish hitchhikers were murdered by Hamas.

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

In 2012 a teacher and three children were shot dead in Toulouse, southern France. This hasn't just started with the Paris killings, it's been going on for a long time. The Jewish community are a massive target, although it saddens me to see that the community is having to be protected by armed police.

DemolitionRed mentions Jews "openly supporting Israel". Well, I don't know many Jews who do actively and openly support the Israeli state in everything they do. As for last year's military action, it started when three young Jewish hitchhikers were murdered by Hamas.

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

It does more than make me 'sad' - it makes me angry and bewilders me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

If we're talking about innocent Jews and innocent Muslims in each case, surely it would be "sad" if people weren't concerned about a potential backlash against Muslims? Innocent people getting caught up in other people's bull**** politics is always sad, no matter what their religious leanings... Right? I worry about this kicking off and ANY ordinary person - Jew, Muslim, Christian, WWE wrestling fanatic - being caught in the crossfire. It genuinely should not matter even a tiny little bit which holy book they happen to have in the bedside drawer.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If we're talking about innocent Jews and innocent Muslims in each case, surely it would be "sad" if people weren't concerned about a potential backlash against Muslims? Innocent people getting caught up in other people's bull**** politics is always sad, no matter what their religious leanings... Right? I worry about this kicking off and ANY ordinary person - Jew, Muslim, Christian, WWE wrestling fanatic - being caught in the crossfire. It genuinely should not matter even a tiny little bit which holy book they happen to have in the bedside drawer.

Yeah, I agree with all that. Except I don't see the Muslim community being protected by armed guards. So while I hope that no innocent Muslim is caught in the crossfire or attacked by some misguided fanatic with a skewed sense of right and wrong, right now I'm giving more concern to a community that intelligence has shown to be at such a high risk of violence that they're having to be guarded by armed personnel.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

It seems sad to me that while ordinary Jewish people - not Israelis, let's make that clear - have to be protected by armed police that people are worrying about an anti-Muslim backlash.

I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim, in fact I have no faith. I am pro Jews and pro Muslims...just wanted to be clear I'm not taking sides here.

There have been random attacks on Jews because they were Jews and there have been random attacks on Muslims because they were Muslim. Those attacks are aimed with precision against people with a certain faith; however, I don't believe the attacks at the deli in France was targeted at Jews, but a random act against the west. Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't read otherwise.

I go on two political forums and I'm sick to the back teeth of reading the more recent anti Muslim hatred openly spilled out. I'm sick of walking past newspaper stands with screaming headlines about Islam and how none of us are safe. There is a lot of propaganda to incite our fear.

If you read the history pre-war nazi Germany, you will read about the civil unrest the government and popular media did towards the Jewish communities. They demonized the Jews for years and turned a nation into Jew haters. Something uncomfortably similar is happening now towards the Muslims, not only in the middle east but right here in the UK and across Europe.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim, in fact I have no faith. I am pro Jews and pro Muslims...just wanted to be clear I'm not taking sides here.

There have been random attacks on Jews because they were Jews and there have been random attacks on Muslims because they were Muslim. Those attacks are aimed with precision against people with a certain faith; however, I don't believe the attacks at the deli in France was targeted at Jews, but a random act against the west. Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't read otherwise.

I go on two political forums and I'm sick to the back teeth of reading the more recent anti Muslim hatred openly spilled out. I'm sick of walking past newspaper stands with screaming headlines about Islam and how none of us are safe. There is a lot of propaganda to incite our fear.

If you read the history pre-war nazi Germany, you will read about the civil unrest the government and popular media did towards the Jewish communities. They demonized the Jews for years and turned a nation into Jew haters. Something uncomfortably similar is happening now towards the Muslims, not only in the middle east but right here in the UK and across Europe.

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

An amazing post Livia as are all your others on this thread.
A very worrying and sad issue as the topic but your posts are a wonderful and informed read.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

The deli that was attacked in Paris was a kosher deli. I suggest that wasn't a coincidence. I don't need to read the history of pre-war Nazi Germany, I am Jewish and my family on my maternal side come from Germany. If you read the history of the world you'll see that Jews have, from time to time, been demonised in almost every country. However, in the experience of my family, the UK has always been one of the safest and most tolerant places as far as Jews are concerned.

As for being sick of hearing that say none of us are safe, well... none of us are safe. There is a scourge on the world right now, they have no boundaries, they have no mercy, you can't negotiate with them because we don't have anything they want. They consider anyone who's not with them to be against them, and that includes Muslims who aren't down with their particular brand of inhumanity. They don't represent all Muslims, they've killed, raped, tortured, burned etc. other Muslims in their thousands and everyone with half a brain knows that they do not represent Islam as a faith. But you can't get away from the fact that Al Qaida and ISIL are fundamental Islamic groups. It's not propaganda inflaming people's fear, it's the acts of terror and violence being carried out by a terrorists and it's really happening, it's not just a news story.

Yes they Pre Planned to hit that "Kosher" supermarket
they are saying the Leader of these attacks was in
Greece?