[Jay.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think it depends on circumstances really, a lot of people are lucky enough to have parents / siblings / other family who can help with childcare and that makes the decision to go back to work easy. We decided for one of us to stay home until they were school age and one of us to work which works OK for us (we have literally zero help from family, unfortunately), my wife works from home as well, she has run various websites and is currently writing, but now with the youngest being diagnosed ASD it's all a bit uncertain and it may well be that there will never be a time when we can both work, as our daughter might need one of us permanently. Or she might be fully capable of being independent and going to school by five or six. She is only 2.5 so it's impossible to know.

Anyway, rambling about myself a bit, my point is that going back to work genuinely isn't an option for everyone. Not everyone has family to help OR a partner. And not even always because they've gotten "knocked up" as a single mum - we know a woman who was with her partner for years, they planned a baby together, and then when he was born the dad just said "I can't do this" and left never to be heard from again other than paltry child support. Another friend was with her husband for several years, they owned a home together, had TWO children, and he arrived home one day and announced that he had been seeing someone else, wanted to leave, and wanted to sell the house. Circumstances vary widely. That's not to say that there aren't people who are "lazy" (although again, if you are lazy the LAST thing you want to do is have children!) and exploit what's available but I personally don't think those people are worth tearing the whole system down for, when some genuine people need it to live normal lives.

Oh god, that's awful. Hope you are all okay. But I said obviously not everyone, some people do deserve the help obviously, but I know some people, where I live, who have had more children just for more money etc. who have massive families, who could easily look after their children. Now, obviously people are going to look down on that. There ought to be a system where they look into who could look after the children whilst the parent is at work etc. it would just make a lot more sense.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Josy

Some people do yes.

About three years ago it was reported that there were over 180 non working families in the UK with more than 10 kids, that's not to say those people had their kids for the benefits but the money these people are receiving in benefits per year for themselves and the children plus housing benefits means there really is no incentive for them to go out and work, they would earn less working than what the benefits added up to so why would they bother?
.

That's not how it works though, the vast majority of those benefits will be child tax credits / child benefits which you still get if working, and probably more as with someone working there's then working tax credits. Housing benefits also scale with income, getting a job doesn't mean losing it (necessarily) unless the job is a high paying one. So long as it's 16 hours a week or more, a household will ALWAYS be better off to some degree if working.

That said, with that much coming in, the difference of a few hundred pounds a month might seem "not worth it" to many. The benefits cap should largely have addressed that, though. The 26k cap effectively caps families at 4 children, having more won't increase anything. I also suspect it might be pretty much impossible to raise 10 kids on 26k per year. I find myself occasionally broke on more than that with just two .

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not how it works though, the vast majority of those benefits will be child tax credits / child benefits which you still get if working, and probably more as with someone working there's then working tax credits. Housing benefits also scale with income, getting a job doesn't mean losing it (necessarily) unless the job is a high paying one. So long as it's 16 hours a week or more, a household will ALWAYS be better off to some degree if working.

That said, with that much coming in, the difference of a few hundred pounds a month might seem "not worth it" to many. The benefits cap should largely have addressed that, though. The 26k cap effectively caps families at 4 children, having more won't increase anything. I also suspect it might be pretty much impossible to raise 10 kids on 26k per year. I find myself occasionally broke on more than that with just two .

Figures released under the Freedom of Information Act show that there are 190 families with at least ten under-18s where one or both of the parents gets an out-of-work benefit.

These families are eligible for £61,183 a year in state support – much more than they could hope to earn if they entered the job market.

A family in work would have to earn £93,000 to be left with this amount of money after tax.

The statistics illustrate the extent to which enormous handouts condemn such families to a life on benefits, because it would not be worth their while to take on work.

This was in 2012, the figures will no doubt have changed now but it still proves the point of my post.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Josy

This was in 2012, the figures will no doubt have changed now but it still proves the point of my post.

In the past some of the figures have been mind boggling... I've seen quotes of people in receipt of the equivalent of a six figure salary. That was before the introduction of a "cap" though, and more kids literally just meant more tax credits no matter how many there were.

I'm not sure if the cap has fully come into effect yet or not, I know there is "transitional protection" in many cases, but if / when it does come in I can only imagine that many of those families will be pretty screwed. Which many may celebrate, and yes it might stop the same situations arising again, however sadly I suspect that it's mainly the children who will suffer and the parents will just take what is available mainly for themselves.

[the truth]

Yes of course they do...the solution? 1) pay these beenfits in food vouchers 2) make them work somehours for the benefis when their kids are in school...3) take evry benefit away when their kids areover 16

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

It definitely happens but is not as prevalent as some will claim.

It quite ironic cuz many of the girls think they're getting away with something by having kids instead of working but sadly they are too thick to realise by having kids they are actually working far harder than their peers who have jobs.

This is assuming that the people who have kids instead of going to work actually are good parents. The ones who do use kids as a way to get more cash may not give a toss if the kids are fed and changed etc.,
That's the tragedy of funding this kind of parent, because those kids will grow up knowing they are not really wanted, just a means to an end, and later on because of this, they too may become a social problem.
Child benefit should only be paid for the first two children. After that you are on your own.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

This is assuming that the people who have kids instead of going to work actually are good parents. The ones who do use kids as a way to get more cash may not give a toss if the kids are fed and changed etc.,
That's the tragedy of funding this kind of parent, because those kids will grow up knowing they are not really wanted, just a means to an end, and later on because of this, they too may become a social problem.
Child benefit should only be paid for the first two children. After that you are on your own.

I agree.

It is the continued disintegration of the traditional 'Family Unit' which is chiefly responsible for the continuous increases in anti-social behaviour and gangs of ignorant,feral kids who have no respect for anything or anyone, because they have not been raised with any kind of discipline and moral instruction. This cuts across all classes of society, but is predominantly 'lower working class'.

[Kizzy]

Cue the lone parent bashing...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cue the lone parent bashing...

Are you referring to me? Please identify as much before I respond.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cue the lone parent bashing...

I don't see anyone in this thread bashing lone parents.

Perhaps you would like to add an opinion to the thread?

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I agree.

It is the continued disintegration of the traditional 'Family Unit' which is chiefly responsible for the continuous increases in anti-social behaviour and gangs of ignorant,feral kids who have no respect for anything or anyone, because they have not been raised with any kind of discipline and moral instruction. This cuts across all classes of society, but is predominantly 'lower working class'.

I agree. Kids should feel wanted and when they don't that's when the problem start.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I could not agree more. I would have had 20 kids if I could afford them (and my wife didn't wear out ) but I stuck at three. Then again, I had to work for a living.

Yeah we are sticking with 2 for exactly that reason.We would struggle to afford more than 2 kids.We don't claim any benefits.It's common sense to live within your means.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cue the lone parent bashing...

cue the victim mentality

[lostalex]

no, they have kids because they get drunk and have sex with losers.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Josy

I don't see anyone in this thread bashing lone parents.

Perhaps you would like to add an opinion to the thread?

I added my opinion on page 1.

[JoshBB]

I doubt it. It would probably cost more to look after the child than the benefits even cover.

[Amy Jade]

Yeah it happens, there is a girl who lives quite close to me who worked in a supermarket got pregnant and basically carried on getting pregnant once she liked the lifestyle. She's like 28 and got 4 kids all by different dads which I guess is her choice but people say she does it on purpose just to get pregnant which is awful imo.

Her fb is unprotected too and she brags about what she has and I think it's quite sad she lives better than people who work every day.

[arista]

there is a Ch5HD series on this
showing 18 year olds
but is depressing to watch
plus the backing music is crass

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Yeah it happens, there is a girl who lives quite close to me who worked in a supermarket got pregnant and basically carried on getting pregnant once she liked the lifestyle. She's like 28 and got 4 kids all by different dads which I guess is her choice but people say she does it on purpose just to get pregnant which is awful imo.

Her fb is unprotected too and she brags about what she has and I think it's quite sad she lives better than people who work every day.

Thank God for another voice of reason speaking from direct experience.

[coffee]

My cousin who is same age as me (23) did this. She still can barely read and her 4 kids have 4 different dads. She left school when she was 15 just by never showing up, didn't turn up to any exams, didn't go to college or even start work ever.... I met her on her 18th birthday and she had signed on that day!!! The day she turned 18, she was so excited!!! :/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Yeah it happens, there is a girl who lives quite close to me who worked in a supermarket got pregnant and basically carried on getting pregnant once she liked the lifestyle. She's like 28 and got 4 kids all by different dads which I guess is her choice but people say she does it on purpose just to get pregnant which is awful imo.

Her fb is unprotected too and she brags about what she has and I think it's quite sad she lives better than people who work every day.

That's just a sad way to be though. I don't know why anyone would have kids for an easier lifestyle, they're alot of work and it's 24/7 not just 9-5. ****ing hell i got home from work yesterday at 6:15, had my dinner and then I was out again driving my kids around till 9:30, had to watch Eastenders on the repeat

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's just a sad way to be though. I don't know why anyone would have kids for an easier lifestyle, they're alot of work and it's 24/7 not just 9-5. ****ing hell i got home from work yesterday at 6:15, had my dinner and then I was out again driving my kids around till 9:30, had to watch Eastenders on the repeat

Sounds so very familiar.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by coffee

My cousin who is same age as me (23) did this. She still can barely read and her 4 kids have 4 different dads. She left school when she was 15 just by never showing up, didn't turn up to any exams, didn't go to college or even start work ever.... I met her on her 18th birthday and she had signed on that day!!! The day she turned 18, she was so excited!!! :/

Sounds like 'egg on face' time for anyone who denies that such claimants exist Coffee.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by coffee

My cousin who is same age as me (23) did this. She still can barely read and her 4 kids have 4 different dads. She left school when she was 15 just by never showing up, didn't turn up to any exams, didn't go to college or even start work ever.... I met her on her 18th birthday and she had signed on that day!!! The day she turned 18, she was so excited!!! :/

I see these 4 x 4's are becoming less rare these days...........lol

[Jamesy]

I actually know someone (my cousin, in her 40s) that is quite explicit about how they have never wanted to work and that they have had kids just to stay out of work. Most of my family hate her but I find it quite interesting the lengths she (and probably many other 'scroungers') go to just to live a stress-free life and better lifestyle.

Recently the local jobcentre was catching on to her to get into work so she started looking roughed up and persuaded them that she was depressed and struggling, cue being 'ill' for a few weeks. After that she went through some process to say that she was suffering because she had to take care of her disabled daughter 24/7 (her daughter has a speech impairment and is perfectly dependable, she's now 13 and in high school and doesn't need any help). She needed a signature from someone in a professional medical role to confirm she does need to be on hand 24/7 to take care of her daughter, tried to get a signature from my mum (who works in the NHS), my mum refused but my cousin found someone else to write a signature and ta da, she now doesn't have to go to the jobcentre and gets more benefits for 3 or 4 years until there's a reassessment. She has gloated about this loads, how she 'tricked' the jobcentre and how she's so relieved she doesn't have to work and can relax for 3 or 4 years.

My cousin baffles the rest of us (in my family). Her mum and dad worked all their lives, her brother is now in his late 30s and owns a massive cake business with his wife that works with UK brands like Krispy Kreme and Sainsburys. Yet my cousin hasn't lifted a finger her entire life. Pregnant at 16, now has 3 kids, a very big house on a pretty nice estate (usually council areas are rough but she lives in quite a nice area), and all the money she could dream of.

It's quite infuriating when I look at my parents, who have worked their entire lives and gone through a hell of a lot to provide me and my brother with a decent lifestyle, and then I look at my cousin who lives in a similar (if not better) lifestyle and all she did for that was sleep with two different guys and have three kids over 20 years.

The UK system really needs a massive shake-up. When I went to Catalonia (Spain) and spoke to some locals there they told me of the system there which sounds pretty good. If you have a child you get financial support for a certain amount of time (I think it was something like 2 years), then after that the support stops and you're expected to have a job. If you have more children you get support for a less amount of time, so if with the first kid you get 2 years support, the second child you get 1 year, the third child 6 months etc. The locals I spoke to said it works very well there, more people work, less people have children for the sake of it and generally it's managed very well. It's a shame the UK doesn't have harsher systems in place similar to that.