[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but that wouldn't be him making it about that though, it would be the people or person who defaced the war memorial who made it about that..whatever feelings people have about David Cameron or the Conservative party or if it had been any other party who won...because he wasn't the one who made it about that and neither did the majority of protesters either..protesting is good, uniting in one voice is good when you all feel so strongly about something but sadly as is so often the case, a minority of a few people distract from that voice by making it about something else/by making it about what they have done...and really isn't it those few who are taking a moral high ground in a kind of way because it's placing their heightened feelings above families of people who died for their country, there is no bigger sacrifice or 'hardship' than that..The women of WW2 and the memory of them have nothing to do with anything protested about, and if the focus is about that/the memorial... then it's whoever disrespected it that has made it so...

Well said Ammi,there is NO excuse for defacing a memorial or any other property for that matter,it shows them up for the cretins they are.

[arista]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Charlotte Church has gone over to their side, hopefully we can get Joss Stone, that will teach them!!

Run out of Hit songs
has she

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I read her sign as "I'mma Da Shell" and genuinely spent 10 seconds wondering why Charlotte Church has gone ghetto, and what "da shell" is. I need to go back to bed.


I did actually see a couple of her tweets yesterday.

I also saw some of her posts on Twitter and agreed with them.

And I feel that the anti-austerity cause is harmed when it lets anarchists protest with them. They seem to want to take down the system and they have nothing to replace it with.



Like, I can't see how that graffiti helps anyone.

And while I do believe people have a right to protest, but protesting against the winning party in a democratic election just held, seems to be a protest against democracy itself.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well said Ammi,there is NO excuse for defacing a memorial or any other property for that matter,it shows them up for the cretins they are.

Yes but this Left Wing Horror group
says Feck Women

[susie q]

Riots and violence are not the answer to any social problems. Rioters are only playing into the medias hands. The way to protest is to take more of an interest in politics at least at local level, and change things from the inside.

[arista]

Originally Posted by susie q

Riots and violence are not the answer to any social problems. Rioters are only playing into the medias hands. The way to protest is to take more of an interest in politics at least at local level, and change things from the inside.

You Are Most Wise susie q

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

Run out of Hit songs
has she

You are MOST WISE Arista.

Charlotte Church wasn't on any side but her own when times were good for her.

Here is a 29 year old who voted for THE VERY FIRST TIME in this year's election, maintaining that she has; ''Never voted before in a general election because she thought it was "condoning a broken system" and propping up an "illusion of democracy".

What a crock of Russell Brand-style shet.

Her sudden 'politic-ism' and crusading for the Labour Party coincides with her claims that all her millions have gone and that she will have to work for the rest of her life - "Not because I want to but because I have to." (what does the silly spoilt cow think the rest of us have to do?)

Perhaps in some obscure way she blames Tory Policy for the fact that in 2003 she was reliably reported to be worth Ł25 million pounds, was down to just Ł8 million pounds last year and is skint this year, even though the Conservatives were not in Government during most of that period and even though "paperwork lodged with Companies House" show her company currently has Ł2.4 million of fixed investments and Ł775,000 of stocks, is owed Ł240,799, and has nearly Ł35,000 of cash sat in the bank".

I wish I was as "skint".

I think the key to understanding her 'nouveau politic-ism' is a Russell Brand style attempt to restore the slump in her popularity and appeal among the - largely working class - masses who bought her records,attended her concerts and made her rich in the first place, by falsely 'identifying herself' as 'one of them', but a look at one of her statements concerning her wealth tells the true story:

"I will have to continue working now to keep my lifestyle."

Note; ''Keep my lifestyle'' - not to exist comfortably or 'make do' as the rest of us have to during economic recessions.

Alas, the simple truth is, that she can ONLY keep her lifestyle by keeping working, and she can only keep working, IF the great working class masses who made her then deserted her suddenly start to BUY her and her merchandise again.

Voting for the first time in 11 years and for the Labour Party to boot, and marching under the glare of the TV cameras with a hastily and poorly scrawled placard in a 'Protest Rally' might fool certain people on here - but I can see it for the same fake, self-serving Russell Brand B.S. which it really is.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by susie q

Riots and violence are not the answer to any social problems. Rioters are only playing into the medias hands. The way to protest is to take more of an interest in politics at least at local level, and change things from the inside.

It's not the answer to social problems, it IS a social problem. An inevitable symptom of a terminally ill political system.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

And I feel that the anti-austerity cause is harmed when it lets anarchists protest with them. They seem to want to take down the system and they have nothing to replace it with.



Like, I can't see how that graffiti helps anyone.

And while I do believe people have a right to protest, but protesting against the winning party in a democratic election just held, seems to be a protest against democracy itself.

I don't think these celebrity endorsements help anyone,I mean just look at Russell Brand for an example

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes but this Left Wing Horror group
says Feck Women

Well FECK them I say arista ,they need to go out and get a job,too much time on there hands.

[Kizzy]

Charlotte Church was a peaceful protester in Cardiff where there were no issues with social order, and is entitled to protest if she wants. Where are the freedoms in this country now?...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not the answer to social problems, it IS a social problem. An inevitable symptom of a terminally ill political system.

I agree and it is almost clear that again this govt; is not going to listen no matter his more gentle tones at present.

Now, I hate protest marches, I refused to take part in any as Student,even when the Lib Dems voted to treble tuition fees.
I was absolutely furious but would not take part in any protests publicly.

Why, because the vast majority of people who do march and protest, are doing so legally and appropriately.
However, what then happens is you get hangers on, who go way over the top, it may be as small as only a handful of people on the protest,who then get 'all' the protesters branded all sorts of wrong and disgraceful names and branded as louts and hooligans.

It gives the people who will never ever at all admit protesters have any genuine grievances at all, the opportunity to focus only on the negative side of the protest, such as a broken window or grafitti being daubed on places that should be respected.
They will never admit,the establishment help strongly to fuel such things as protests by their total unwillingness to listen, compromise and realise they could just have it wrong sometimes.

Protests will be pointless against this govt; some people say anyone has the right to protest but if they themselves don't agree with what is being protested about, then the protesters all of them, for only the actions of a tiny few, will be branded anarchists or militants.

People have every right to be furious at this election result, with so many rotten,heartless welfare cuts to come from a party that failed to win an outright majority last time in 2010, could only add 0.8%.less than 1%, to its vote this time, the opposition adding a measly near double that, 1.5% to their vote.
Yet now they can get, for roughly the same votes, more power to inflict more of their heartless policies,getting only around the same support they had in 2010.
People still actually wonder why voters and citizens are angry at that, lord help us.

Nearly two thirds of the UK voted against the policies of this govt; and uniquely for the first time, 'all' the opposition parties with that 64% of votes, are all against more severe austerity and welfare cuts of an extra 10 billion pounds.

Yet again, people wonder why some get really passionate and angry when that happens.
We again have a govt; falling well short of even just attracting 4 in 10 voters to their cause.
That is now 3 elections in a row where around two thirds of all voters have not supported the main party in govt:
If the leaders realised that and compromised, no protests would be necessary.
That is not sour grapes of someone being on the losing side, it is simply facts.

Marches are not the way however in my view, nowadays you can never be sure who will tag along just looking for trouble or who will join it on the way to cause destruction and get noticed for the news.
The media then get the chance to focus 'only' on the trouble rather than the valid argument being presented in the first place as to the march/protest.

[bots]

Peaceful protest ..... Yeah, peaceful protesters are known to wear masks and hoods and face off against the police

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Charlotte Church was a peaceful protester in Cardiff where there were no issues with social order, and is entitled to protest if she wants. Where are the freedoms in this country now?...

I agree Kizzy, they are free to protest,I just get annoyed that these celebrities think they hold some kind of clout,people will vote for what they want,afterall had that been aimed at Milliband or anyone else,it would still have been wrong imo.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Peaceful protest ..... Yeah, peaceful protesters are known to wear masks and hoods and face off against the police

I see the brave ones out there gobbing in their hoodies,Look at the baying mob,why should England tremble !!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well FECK them I say arista ,they need to go out and get a job,too much time on there hands.

With respect, how do you know they haven't got jobs or at least most of them.
It was a Sunday Kazanne, not everyone 'has to work' Sundays yet still.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With respect, how do you know they haven't got jobs or at least most of them.
It was a Sunday Kazanne, not everyone 'has to work' Sundays yet still.

It was tongue and cheek Joey we just don't have a smilie for that,but evenso if they are the sort of people that we are left with that don't like the Tories,I am glad I voted the right way now,bitontheslide pics say it all.

[Jay.]

peaceful protests > that mess

the power of that media tho eh

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree and it is almost clear that again this govt; is not going to listen no matter his more gentle tones at present.

Now, I hate protest marches, I refused to take part in any as Student,even when the Lib Dems voted to treble tuition fees.
I was absolutely furious but would not take part in any protests publicly.

Why, because the vast majority of people who do march and protest, are doing so legally and appropriately.
However, what then happens is you get hangers on, who go way over the top, it may be as small as only a handful of people on the protest,who then get 'all' the protesters branded all sorts of wrong and disgraceful names and branded as louts and hooligans.

It gives the people who will never ever at all admit protesters have any genuine grievances at all, the opportunity to focus only on the negative side of the protest, such as a broken window or grafitti being daubed on places that should be respected.
They will never admit,the establishment help strongly to fuel such things as protests by their total unwillingness to listen, compromise and realise they could just have it wrong sometimes.

Protests will be pointless against this govt; some people say anyone has the right to protest but if they themselves don't agree with what is being protested about, then the protesters all of them, for only the actions of a tiny few, will be branded anarchists or militants.

People have every right to be furious at this election result, with so many rotten,heartless welfare cuts to come from a party that failed to win an outright majority last time in 2010, could only add 0.8%.less than 1%, to its vote this time, the opposition adding a measly near double that, 1.5% to their vote.
Yet now they can get, for roughly the same votes, more power to inflict more of their heartless policies,getting only around the same support they had in 2010.
People still actually wonder why voters and citizens are angry at that.

Nearly two thirds of the UK voted against the policies of this govt; and uniquely for the first time, 'all' the opposition parties with that 64% of votes, are all against more severe austerity and welfare cuts of an extra 10 billion pounds.

Yet again, people wonder why some get really passionate and angry when that happens.
We again have a govt; falling well short of even just attracting 4 in 10 voters to their cause.
That is now 3 elections in a row where around two thirds of all voters have not supported the main party in govt:
If the leaders realised that and compromised, no protests would be necessary.
That is not sour grapes of someone being on the losing side, it is simply facts.

Marches are not the way however in my view, nowadays you can never be sure who will tag along just looking for trouble or who will join it on the way to cause destruction and get noticed for the news.
The media then get the chance to focus 'only' on the trouble rather than the valid argument being presented in the first place as to the march/protest.

I was well pissed off when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were elected for 3 friggin terms in office, implementing policies that the majority of the country didn't vote for then either. The difference is, that people respected the democratic process, and gave the government its blessing UNTIL they illegally took a dump on Iraq.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

It was tongue and cheek Joey we just don't have a smilie for that,but evenso if they are the sort of people that we are left with that don't like the Tories,I am glad I voted the right way now,bitontheslide pics say it all.

If I was a supporter of marches I would have likely joined that one, so I would have been a lout and waste of space too in your and others generalised view of them all.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It was a Sunday Kazanne, not everyone 'has to work' Sundays yet still.

Just mugs like me . 11am - 10.30pm, living the dream .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

if they are the sort of people that we are left with that don't like the Tories,I am glad I voted the right way now,bitontheslide pics say it all.

I can't figure out if you're lying / exaggerating to make a point, or actually believe this drivel?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I was well pissed off when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were elected for 3 friggin terms in office, implementing policies that the majority of the country didn't vote for then either. The difference is, that people respected the democratic process, and gave the government its blessing UNTIL they illegally took a dump on Iraq.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree and it is almost clear that again this govt; is not going to listen no matter his more gentle tones at present.

Now, I hate protest marches, I refused to take part in any as Student,even when the Lib Dems voted to treble tuition fees.
I was absolutely furious but would not take part in any protests publicly.

Why, because the vast majority of people who do march and protest, are doing so legally and appropriately.
However, what then happens is you get hangers on, who go way over the top, it may be as small as only a handful of people on the protest,who then get 'all' the protesters branded all sorts of wrong and disgraceful names and branded as louts and hooligans.

It gives the people who will never ever at all admit protesters have any genuine grievances at all, the opportunity to focus only on the negative side of the protest, such as a broken window or grafitti being daubed on places that should be respected.
They will never admit,the establishment help strongly to fuel such things as protests by their total unwillingness to listen, compromise and realise they could just have it wrong sometimes.

Protests will be pointless against this govt; some people say anyone has the right to protest but if they themselves don't agree with what is being protested about, then the protesters all of them, for only the actions of a tiny few, will be branded anarchists or militants.

People have every right to be furious at this election result, with so many rotten,heartless welfare cuts to come from a party that failed to win an outright majority last time in 2010, could only add 0.8%.less than 1%, to its vote this time, the opposition adding a measly near double that, 1.5% to their vote.
Yet now they can get, for roughly the same votes, more power to inflict more of their heartless policies,getting only around the same support they had in 2010.
People still actually wonder why voters and citizens are angry at that, lord help us.

Nearly two thirds of the UK voted against the policies of this govt; and uniquely for the first time, 'all' the opposition parties with that 64% of votes, are all against more severe austerity and welfare cuts of an extra 10 billion pounds.

Yet again, people wonder why some get really passionate and angry when that happens.
We again have a govt; falling well short of even just attracting 4 in 10 voters to their cause.
That is now 3 elections in a row where around two thirds of all voters have not supported the main party in govt:
If the leaders realised that and compromised, no protests would be necessary.
That is not sour grapes of someone being on the losing side, it is simply facts.

Marches are not the way however in my view, nowadays you can never be sure who will tag along just looking for trouble or who will join it on the way to cause destruction and get noticed for the news.
The media then get the chance to focus 'only' on the trouble rather than the valid argument being presented in the first place as to the march/protest.

It's all relative though isn't it?... Look at the 'graffiti' all over the pages of the Mail when they carved into Ralph Miliband.
Was he not a victim of war? It seemed acceptable then to scrawl offensive comments all over the place.
Being over cautious and not expressing your feelings publicly is entirely your right, there are those who are more demonstrative through words than deeds, activists and everything in between it has no baring on strength of feeling that they protest in this manner.
I totally agree that as with the student protests it will be this example of social disorder that will be used to tarnish anyone who chooses to march, protest or demonstrate against the proposed cuts.
This divide and conquer mentality is a proven formula and as such will be replicated to suit any issue sadly.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I was well pissed off when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were elected for 3 friggin terms in office, implementing policies that the majority of the country didn't vote for then either. The difference is, that people respected the democratic process, and gave the government its blessing UNTIL they illegally took a dump on Iraq.

You totally and maybe purposely missed my entire whole point, Tony Blair and Labour won 2 of those elections with over 40% of the votes cast.

One of the elections I was moaning about was actually his 3rd win with only around 35% of the votes cast.

Margaret Thatcher got 3 terms in office with election wins that all carried over 40% of the voters that voted.
Totally different and more legitimate scenarios.

This is the first time ever that 3 elections in a row,one for labour, 2 for the Conservatives, have resulted in the main governing party barely having just over a third of voters behind them.
(However with the Lib Dems in govt; after 2010 too, more legitimacy was given the last govt; with their votes tally added too).

I now think that should be completely unacceptable in a multi party set up.
No matter what party that gets such low support.

I just don't understand why people cannot see the justified anger that near two thirds of voters have, as to how their votes have been in effect pointless and a meaningless effort to even make to bother voting.
I'd be saying that too, had Miliband won with barely 35/36% of the votes too.
It shouldn't be acceptable or sustainable now.

Otherwise more unrest and even less and less people bothering to vote will be what happens.
What should we do, wait until well over half of those eligible to vote stop doing so before we even begin to address a major problem of right representation of the people as to this.