[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by Stu
So drinking is simply different because it is a 'Part of life'??? Thats a completely ludicrous statement that ignores any sort of facts whatsoever.

I don't think it's ludicrous, I think you just havn't thought it through properly.

The performance of smoking a cigarette is something which you brought up earlier in this thread, explaining how you aspire to smoke "as Steve McQueen like as possible". That's because you've recognised some sort of style which appeals to you and it's something you wish to duplicate. Other young people have the same mentality as you. They see the act of smoking a cigarette and wish to copy it.

Alcohol is different. The act of drinking is something we all do which is not exclusive to consuming alcohol.

[Stu]

Originally posted by the_chosen_one

I don't think it's ludicrous, I think you just havn't thought it through properly.

The performance of smoking a cigarette is something which you brought up earlier in this thread, explaining how you aspire to smoke "as Steve McQueen like as possible". That's because you've recognised some sort of style which appeals to you and it's something you wish to duplicate. Other young people have the same mentality as you. They see the act of smoking a cigarette and wish to copy it.

Alcohol is different. The act of drinking is something we all do which is not exclusive to consuming alcohol.

You took a passing smart comment on Steve McQueen out of context and have prepared to use it in virtually your every argument.

You still make no point. Alcohol is not 'different' , its caused more social problems and deaths than smoking ever will - and thats a fact. Why is is you have a problem with ciggarettes but not alcohol? is it because you consume alcohol and therefore justify it as fine???

We dont want those children drinking on street corners now do we???

Once again its all a part of life. Its up to the parents to sit down and tell their kids the dangers right?

Why are they let watch the show in the firts place???

*Influence is not something you can surpress either , we are influenced to walk , talk , eat and yes - smoke. if Big Brother wont do it , somehting else will.

[bananarama]

Stu...Smoking is indeed being picked on because the original post was about smoking and the views about it.

I can understand the principle you are defending but each of us will have a differnt point at we draw a line in the sand with reagard to public dangers and what to do about them if anything.........I admit I draw a line in the sand with regard to smoking. Someone said smoking was normal. Eh. since when is impersonating a chimny pot been normal.

Alcohol is even more embedded in society than smoking. Smoking is slowly being forced out of society. The problem of alcohol is far more difficult to deal with because unlike smoking alcohol abuse is on the increase.

Your right parents should educate children about smoking and indeed alcohol. Sadly children with their quest for independance and wanting to appear grown up will pay little regard to what their parents say. More so if the parent themselves are indulging in the dangerous habits their kids are indulging in.....

[Stu]

Originally posted by bananarama
Stu...Smoking is indeed being picked on because the original post was about smoking and the views about it.

I can understand the principle you are defending but each of us will have a differnt point at we draw a line in the sand with reagard to public dangers and what to do about them if anything.........I admit I draw a line in the sand with regard to smoking. Someone said smoking was normal. Eh. since when is impersonating a chimny pot been normal.

Alcohol is even more embedded in society than smoking. Smoking is slowly being forced out of society. The problem of alcohol is far more difficult to deal with because unlike smoking alcohol abuse is on the increase.

Your right parents should educate children about smoking and indeed alcohol. Sadly children with their quest for independance and wanting to appear grown up will pay little regard to what their parents say. More so if the parent themselves are indulging in the dangerous habits their kids are indulging in.....

You just wrote my argument for me , cheers .

Smoking is slowly being forced out of society. The problem of alcohol is far more difficult to deal with because unlike smoking alcohol abuse is on the increase.

You mention this yet you still state your going to draw the line at smoking?

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Stu

You just wrote my argument for me , cheers .

Smoking is slowly being forced out of society. The problem of alcohol is far more difficult to deal with because unlike smoking alcohol abuse is on the increase.

You mention this yet you still state your going to draw the line at smoking?

Like I said each of us will draw the line in the sand at what ever they feel the most strongest about and an action that would be most productive.

Because alcohol is on the increase and more accepted in society a ban in the house would do nothing at all to decreas the urge to drink......That is why I would not call for such an action. Smoking on the other hand is not as socially accepted and is a killer habit thus a ban in the house would be productive in helping youngsters from following the dangerous habit of silly adults.........

[Stu]

Originally posted by bananarama

Like I said each of us will draw the line in the sand at what ever they feel the most strongest about and an action that would be most productive.

Because alcohol is on the increase and more accepted in society a ban in the house would do nothing at all to decreas the urge to drink......That is why I would not call for such an action. Smoking on the other hand is not as socially accepted and is a killer habit thus a ban in the house would be productive in helping youngsters from following the dangerous habit of silly adults.........

Then again by the same token isint their enough media scrutiny as you mentioned surrounding the noble drug of nicotine to offset any chances of little Harold copying Brian around the back of the schoolyard???

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by Stu
You took a passing smart comment on Steve McQueen out of context and have prepared to use it in virtually your every argument.

Your comment on Steve McQueen is a perfect example for the basis for my stance on the issue of considering banning smoking from Big Brother shows. Young people see actors or people on TV smoking and they wish to impersonate that very performance of smoking a cigarette.

You may wish to widen the horizons of the debate by discussing alcohol, cars, fist-fighting or living upside down in a wheelie bin, but as I've pointed out, I'll leave your tangents for those who wish to pick them up. It's no slight on your arguments.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Stu

Then again by the same token isint their enough media scrutiny as you mentioned surrounding the noble drug of nicotine to offset any chances of little Harold copying Brian around the back of the schoolyard???

Simple answer to thet is "No".....

[Stu]

Originally posted by the_chosen_one

Your comment on Steve McQueen is a perfect example for the basis for my stance on the issue of considering banning smoking from Big Brother shows. Young people see actors or people on TV smoking and they wish to impersonate that very performance of smoking a cigarette.

You may wish to widen the horizons of the debate by discussing alcohol, cars, fist-fighting or living upside down in a wheelie bin, but as I've pointed out, I'll leave your tangents for those who wish to pick them up. It's no slight on your arguments.

My comment on Steve Mc Queen was a poorly executed attempt at wit , and it has been translated into a scapegoat textbook example of influencing young children everywhere to gopicking up on smoking , despite the fact that...

1. Ill be 18 next year , so im hardly influential child material - unless you have a broad and simple imaginaiton of what a child is.

2. Ill place a wager that most 8-12 year olds dont have a clue who Steve Mc Queen is , or give a damn.

3. Again cant parents turn the TV off?

4. Theirs not many celebs puffing away left to influence anybody , and as bannanarama correctly said - smoking is on the decline.

I see no problem in discussing other things such as drinking in the house because they all tie in with children being influenced by TV - the core of this debate. I merely think you dont know how to argue the point.

Simple answer to thet is "No".....

Thats a pretty definitive statement so ill respect your opinion but will disagree .

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by Stu
I merely think you dont know how to argue the point.

On the contrary, I did make my point, even using one of your own quotes to help, but you just back tracked and said it was meaningless in the first place.

Whether your McQueen comment was meaningless or not, I was still only highlighting a very real notion that young people are influenced by the performances they see on the television, irrespective of whether you personally are guilty of it, and that is what I've been stating as the aspect which could be brought into question were officials discussing the issue of 'not using smokers in Big Brother'. I can't contest your other arguments if I don't have a differing opinion on them.

[Stu]

Originally posted by the_chosen_one

On the contrary, I did make my point, even using one of your own quotes to help, but you just back tracked and said it was meaningless in the first place.

Whether your McQueen comment was meaningless or not, I was still only highlighting a very real notion that young people are influenced by the performances they see on the television, irrespective of whether you personally are guilty of it, and that is what I've been stating as the aspect which could be brought into question were officials discussing the issue of 'not using smokers in Big Brother'. I can't contest your other arguments if I don't have a differing opinion on them.

Ill rehash 2 points I already made which still stand up in light of your recent attempt at an argument .


1. Again again cant parents turn the TV off?

2. Theirs not many celebs puffing away left to influence anybody , and as bannanarama correctly said - smoking is on the decline.

[*Adäm]

Stu, i really don't see why you are defending smoking so much. You are making out it's this big amazing thing. At the end of the day smoking is a filthy habit. It harms the person that smokes and all the people around.

That is the difference between smoking and alcohol. If someone is drinking near you and you happen to inhale, you are not at risk of anything, smoking, on the other hand, is different, as you well know.

This is my reason why I agree that smoking should be banned from Big Brother, and the fact that Britain went smoke free a few days ago, shows the majority of the Brittish public support anti-smoking. And if this became a public notion, I'm sure this would be backed too!

*Adäm x

[Stu]

Stu, i really don't see why you are defending smoking so much

By the same token I could ask why he is against it so much? It is merely a debate.

At the end of the day smoking is a filthy habit. It harms the person that smokes and all the people around.

Drinking can harm a person! many people smoke , it is a comfort to many , learn to live with it.

If someone is drinking near you and you happen to inhale, you are not at risk of anything, smoking, on the other hand, is different, as you well know.

Hence why this year the big brother house convieniently has a smoking area.

the majority of the Brittish public support anti-smoking

And? Dont bother leveraging group mentality against my favour. Most of the british public dont own mansions - but a few do.

[CharlotteSometimes]

Personally, I preferred Steve McQueen sucking eggs.

Smoking shouldn't in any way be 'encouraged' on BB. But banned? Please! BB is supposed to represent a cross-section of society, and a significant number of people still smoke. It's now illegal for them to smoke indoors, so that's a moot point. But there's no reason why anyone should be prevented from smoking, outdoors, in the designated area. If anything, the issue should be why don't Channel 4 edit the footage a little more diligently, to minimise the amount of on-screen smoking, at least. Of course it's a serious health risk, anti-social, expensive, etc. But I think suggesting that young people will see BB hm's smoking, and then that in turn will encourage them to take up the habit themselves, is ludicrous. It smacks of petty bigotry from the anti-smoking brigade, looking for yet another opportunity to impose their self-righteous ideals onto everyone. If your motive is to safeguard third parties from passive smoking, then all credit to you. But the scenario of adults making the decision to smoke outdoors, well away from anyone who finds their habit distasteful, is way beyond your remit.

This topic may be about smoking, but as has been said several times, alcohol is far more of an issue than smoking. Nobody has ever crashed a car, or caused any other form of RTA, because they were under the influence of nicotine. Countless acts of violence occur every day, across the country. Not one of them will be because the perpetrator smoked too many cigarettes. Smokers with families can ensure that they're not exposed to passive-smoking. The families of alcohol abusers are afforded no such luxury. Their lives are blighted, too. Smoking is a personal health risk (when the smoker behaves responsibly, of course), but alcoholism ruins the lives of entire families.

The chances of young people watching the likes of Charley smoking and deciding that it's 'cool' are minimal, to say the least. But when they tune in to see hm's behaving inanely and seemingly 'having fun' because they're intoxicated, it's another matter entirely because of the state-sponsored skewing of the facts.

[the_chosen_one]

Aside from me being assigned the position of anti-smoking by another poster, it's far from the case where I'm concerned, this issue is regarding smokers being chosen for Big Brother and smoking being allowed at all in the BB house. Earlier in the the thread I pointed out how certain types of people are already exempt from taking part in Big Brother, so there is no danger of any principles being contradicted here, because we all know the makers of the show do not run an operation founded on fairness, principles and integrity to the 'reality' label. This is where I consider it a reasonble suggestion to review the legitimacy of smokers and their presence in the Big Brother house. Of course, there are large numbers of smokers in British society, but there's also large numbers of people with mental disorders, physical handicaps, social inadequacies and unconventional habits who will be overlooked at every BB audition process because they are simply not suitable for the standards required from Endemol to make their television show. I don't see why smokers get equal treatment for qualification when they set such a bad example with their behaviour in such an obvious, visible way. Yes, smoking is no big deal to some people, but it's undoubtedly a bad example, no matter where you go, and something all smokers can't reasonbly deny. Poisoning yourself in full view of eveybody is a passtime young viewers might benefit from not seeing.

This is about iconology, in a minor way. Big Brother contestants become small scale television icons for a few months and the things they do get analysed and often impersonated all over the country even other parts of the world, just for the fact that they've been chosen to hang around in a house for a while, so it makes a good deal of sense to choose a line up of people who are going to set a good example to it's young viewers, whilst providing the best amount of entertainment possible for the ratings.

I'm saying overlook smokers, not because I'm unfair, but because Big Brother is far from a real representation of society anyway, so let's atleast exploit that and not glorify smokers and their oh so graceful performance of sitting there all sultry like Angelie Jolie exuding sexuality with every drag of the fag, putting me off my beans on toast.

Next up, overlook the alco's, if you so wish, but we all know alcohol can play an integral part in causing entertainment in the BB house.

[CharlotteSometimes]

It's pretty obvious why "people with mental disorders" aren't considered eligible, and there's no comparison in the slightest, in any case. As for people with physical handicaps, I'm not entirely sure why they're seemingly excluded from the process (any perception of sympathy voting being puerile, of course). But you'd have to elucidate as far as "social inadequacies and unconventional habits" are concerned. As for the whole concept of influence, I'm simply not buying that at all, I'm afraid. You may as well ban every tv show, film, book, etc. in existence.

And (I hope you take this merely as part of the debate, rather than a personal slight) dismissing the alcohol issue so glibly rather erodes your point of view, and suggests selective bias.

[Stu]

Poisoning yourself in full view of eveybody is a passtime young viewers might benefit from not seeing.

I would bring up that alcohol is indeed poisoning your system as well , and for fun - as you mentioned , and thats certainly not glamorous stuff to show to our perfectly reared children - but seeing as your inconsistently ignorant to my point of alcohol [because it it fine by you] I wont waste space arguing it.

Also , children are used to seeing smoking anyway - its hardly a rarity in these interesting times we call modern society - so if not Big brother - they will see it in a multitude of other TV shows.

And if you knew anything about human behaviour , only people that are already smokers are likely to pick up and notice who is actually smoking in the house.

To further illustrate my point - its like getting a piercing. Once you get one - your brain will notice other people with them more.