[lostalex]

This makes me want to vote for Trump.

"It's not surprising at all. We all know what they are like." - that's what i imagine most normal people would be thinking. and most people who have been defending muslims as just like everyone else i guess would be feeling pretty damn stupid right now.

Denying there is a problem of muslims being homophobic and sexist is just ridiculous at this point. but for some reason lots of people on the left think it's okay to be a bigot against gays as long as it's for "cultural" or "religious" reasons. FFS.

[DemolitionRed]

I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics. Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people.

People here are not defending a particular group of people; they are defending allegations of discrimination against a particular group of people and they do that because the people who raise thread after thread about this stuff are usually trying, illegitimately to raise a hate mentality.

[Jamie89]

The interesting thing about this poll is that knowing the muslim religion is anti-gay, how come only 52% of those polled hold those views? It makes me wonder what the outcome would have been 5/10/20 years ago and if it's a sign that it's changing for the better. It would also be interesting to know if there's a difference between age groups in how they responded to get an idea again of how things might be changing.
That's the key thing for me anyway, whether or not we're seeing any kind of progression. It wasn't that long ago (relatively) that being gay was illegal and I can accept some muslims taking longer to catch up than the rest of us, as long as they are catching up.
In my own personal experience of this, I have a friend who is gay and muslim and I know how difficult it is for him. He's in a long term relationship, and his parents know that he's living with a man (although he hasn't told them he's gay he believes they know) and yet he is still considering that at some point he should marry a woman and leave his 'gay life' behind him for the sake of his family. So there's obviously a problem as people like him shouldn't feel like that in modern UK society and we shouldn't ignore that problem, but if the 48% are growing then the problem might not be as bad as we think?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics. Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people.

People here are not defending a particular group of people; they are defending allegations of discrimination against a particular group of people and they do that because the people who raise thread after thread about this stuff are usually trying, illegitimately to raise a hate mentality.

ummm, but it's about muslims being against gays.. so why are you more worried about muslims being talked bad about instead of worried about muslims saying that gay people should be put in jail for being gay?

the article is about how most muslim people think that gay people should be put in jail, but you are more offended by the fact that we are TALKING about the fact that muslims feel that way? are you serious?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

The interesting thing about this poll is that knowing the muslim religion is anti-gay, how come only 52% of those polled hold those views? It makes me wonder what the outcome would have been 5/10/20 years ago and if it's a sign that it's changing for the better. It would also be interesting to know if there's a difference between age groups in how they responded to get an idea again of how things might be changing.
That's the key thing for me anyway, whether or not we're seeing any kind of progression. It wasn't that long ago (relatively) that being gay was illegal and I can accept some muslims taking longer to catch up than the rest of us, as long as they are catching up.
In my own personal experience of this, I have a friend who is gay and muslim and I know how difficult it is for him. He's in a long term relationship, and his parents know that he's living with a man (although he hasn't told them he's gay he believes they know) and yet he is still considering that at some point he should marry a woman and leave his 'gay life' behind him for the sake of his family. So there's obviously a problem as people like him shouldn't feel like that in modern UK society and we shouldn't ignore that problem, but if the 48% are growing then the problem might not be as bad as we think?

Keep in mind that a lot of Muslims don't practice their faith. Those who do, will be against homosexuality as will types of Jews and Christians.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Keep in mind that a lot of Muslims don't practice their faith. Those who do, will be against homosexuality as will types of Jews and Christians.

umm, but they also studied jews and christians, and no, most jews and christians don't think that all gays should be put in jail... so wtf are you talking about?

[arista]

DR
I do hope you can Record or Watch tomorrow
Ch4HD Weds 10PM
"What British Muslims Really Think"


USA News has picked it up
as some views on this Docu Ch4HD
are not telling Police
if a fellow Muslim is going to do a Terrorist
UK Attack.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

DR
I do hope you can Record or Watch tomorrow
Ch4HD Weds 10PM
"What British Muslims Really Think"


USA News has picked it up
as some views on this Docu Ch4HD
are not telling Police
if a fellow Muslim is going to do a Terrorist
UK Attack.

No thanks Arista, I've got better things to do than watch another yawn worthy divide, sedate and distract documentary.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

No thanks Arista, I've got better things to do than watch another yawn worthy divide, sedate and distract documentary.

If you can't be bothered to watch what we are talking about, then you also shouldn't be bothered to comment on it. that is simple logic, and it's hard to take you seriously in any other thread if you admit you can't be bothered with paying attention to the things we are talking about. seriously. think about what you just said in that comment. you are arguing with us over something you say you aren't even interested in. THEN WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO US???

I am definitely going to watch it Arista.

[the truth]

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

that is not what liberals demand at all. not any liberal party i know of at least.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by the truth

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

I certainly don't advocate global open borders or unchecked mass immigration. I also don't believe we should have one rule for one and another rule for another. Personally I think its wrong that practising Muslims don't agree with homosexuality but then I also think the Russian government is wrong to demonize homosexuals and I think its wrong for Mississippi to put laws out against homosexuals and I think my grandparents are wrong to believe homosexuality is nothing more than sexual greed.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

that is not what liberals demand at all. not any liberal party i know of at least.

Yes it 100% is. You are 100% wrong. That's exactly what liberal Europe and liberal UK had for over a decade under the labour parties. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. They simply do not have joined up policies.

[Tom4784]

I do have issues with the whole 'average Muslims are more religious than average Christians' point that was mentioned before. I think it depends on where you are raised more so than the religion in question. Muslims that are born and raised in the UK tend to be as moderate as UK Christians when it comes to their religion after a few generations.

Like Firewire said, the same rings true for Christians when you consider those ultra religious African countries. An African Christian immigrant may hold extreme views but their children and grandchildren aren't likely to think the same way since they'd be raised in a country that doesn't tend to emphasize religion or demonise sexuality.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by coffee

I haven't read any of ur comments apart from this one I was replying to original post. Any middle aged person I know doesn't agree with homosexuality. Don't know your opinion on elton John so.... Lol

You don't need to have read any of my previous comments.

Any middle aged person you know has provided you with their opinion on homosexuality?

[kirklancaster]

EDITED

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed View Post
"I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with"

What does this ACTUALLY mean?

Anyone who DOES NOT agree with something is hardly likely to apply constant positives to that thing in their posts on the subject are they?

"...and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics"

How are you able to state that other 'groups' who have not formed any part of the subjects polled, "have the same characteristics" as the Muslims who were polled?

"Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people."

If the poll was carried out impartially with genuine Muslims being randomly polled, then any 'stereotyping' of Muslims as a result of the poll findings, is being perpetrated by those Muslims polled and ONLY those Muslims polled.

Would you have the truth concealed because it does not fit with your own particular viewpoint?

Or would you ban ANY polling of Muslims because the findings of such polls may - by the very volition of those Muslims so polled - show Muslims in a less-than-favourable light?

The TRUTH is the TRUTH is the TRUTH whether it offends certain parties or not.

I for one would not flinch if I was a gay man visiting the Vatican as a tourist and the Pope and his entourage suggested showing me the spectacular views from the top of St. Peter's Basilica, and the same were it the Anglican Bishop of London and his aides inviting me up to the top of St Paul's Cathedral. Ditto a plethora of other religions.

As a gay man however, I would NOT be seen within a thousand miles of any tall building in Palmyra in Syria, or al-Furat in Iraq, or any other location, in the company of a group of 'Muslims' - extremist or not.

No - this is NOT due to any 'Islamophobia' on my part - just a logical acceptance of the TRUTH.

[Vicky.]

A lot of religious people are very intolerant of homosexuality. 52% is a huge amount though. Doesn't really surprise me mind..

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A lot of religious people are very intolerant of homosexuality. 52% is a huge amount though. Doesn't really surprise me mind..

No they are not, a lot of muslims are intolerant of homosexuality and womens rights. Christians are way way more tolerant and open minded.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by the truth

No they are not, a lot of muslims are intolerant of homosexuality and womens rights. Christians are way way more tolerant and open minded.

A little OTT but I do think there is some truth to this. You still get Christians who are awful and Muslims who are open minded and brilliant, but I think there's a big difference within the religions and one of them is a little more hateful in general.

I still believe we should live and let live though. (unless people are being killed/bullied because of beliefs etc)

[VanessaFeltz.]

How can someone say "gays should be illegal" "being muslim/christian/atheist etc etc should be illegal" like you are not alone in this world, your independence ends where others start. They talk about society when they are defending their opinions but you are the one damaging society when you exclude people.

[the truth]

those who think there is little difference between Christian law and sharia law are living on another planet

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

those who think there is little difference between Christian law and sharia law are living on another planet

Yes as this Ch4 Docu showed


On catch up now

[Crimson Dynamo]

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism

So what do you think the solution is Leather Trumpet ?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So what do you think the solution is Leather Trumpet ?

My solution would be to leave them alone in their own countries so that their people don't resent us when they come here, or have a likely chance of resenting us when they come here.