[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Lateyshas lack of learning is not the failure, it's her lack of wanting to learn and her refusal to listen or learn from the examples placed in front her that are the failure.
She could have learnt from Georgina how to be less Vulger in how she speaks but she didn't.
She could learn from Jason how to have self control when being confronted but instead encouraged Charlie's tirade of abusive.
She could learn from Andy how to be heard without shouting and screaming but instead dismissed the idea and just shouted even louder then before.

She's stupid. And because Andy isn't she judging him for it.

Too busy shouting to ever listen.

YES

[ebandit]

.....sanctimonious...

Mark L

[jet]

Originally Posted by Shaun

his objections to "talking about Jason" are futile and pointlessly self-righteous since...well...everyone talks about people they know. That is a fact of life.

But not everyone has to like or accept it. It takes all sorts. What are things coming to when someone not liking people talking behind backs is seen as a terrible characteristic to have..
Jason IS his friend and that's where his loyalty lies.

[jet]

Originally Posted by sassyfox

Just because you're intelligent doesn't mean you should be arrogant by not taking on board what others have to say. Andy immediately dismisses anything he doesn't agree with and that is rude. Whether he's intelligent or not.

....as opposed to the others who take on board all criticism and change their ways immediately? Have you seen how THEY react to anything negative?
Andy listens very well when he is not being yelled at or goaded. When that happens his defences go up and he becomes a bit stiff and introverted. How he remains so calm I just don't know. They yell at him and lose their heads while he remains articulate and composed and they can't stand that. Why doesn't he shout back? Why doesn't he get in my face? What a arrogant ass!

He listened to advice from Jason and last night from Jayne and said to her that he'd take her advice on board. They spoke to him adult to adult, not yelling attention seeking harpie to adult.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Yes Joey, you can sense that he's so frustrated at being misunderstood and criticised yet he tries so hard to keep his cool and his dignity - and he does an amazing job of it.
When you look at Laytesha and Chelsea losing their heads over trivialities like pancakes, in comparison Andy's composure under personal attack in is even more admirable.

I know how he must feel at times jet.

[letmein]

Andy thinks because the public didn't evict him, he's been vindicated.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I know how he must feel at times jet.

I get ya!

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by jet

But not everyone has to like or accept it. It takes all sorts. What are things coming to when someone not liking people talking behind backs is seen as a terrible characteristic to have..
Jason IS his friend and that's where his loyalty lies.

It's just a moral highground that's always taken with embarrassing consequences. Every time someone says "I don't like talking about other people behind their backs", they are seen doing so within a week. And coupled with his general lack of effort to get to know anyone, and his disregard for their supposed inferior intellect, it smacks of pointless condescension.

[jet]

Originally Posted by sassyfox

You can have composure and be arrogant. In fact arrogance is almost always delivered in a composed manner.

Is it better that he doesn't scream at people? Of course. But does that make him exempt from being arrogant and rude? Absolutely not.

You see arrogance, I see introversion and a stiff dignity in being isolated, misunderstood and targeted.
I don't see rude as a characteristic at all. He's better mannered than most of them in there by far.

[jet]

Originally Posted by sassyfox

It is rude to state your opinion, patiently listen to theirs and then when they've finished walk away. That's not just being introverted. That is rude, immature and something he should work on.

Believe it or not I like Andy! Just that the way he talks to people he has disagreements with will almost always end badly because of the way both they AND he conducts themselves.

Sorry, I genuinely don't recall that. Could you remind me?

[jet]

Originally Posted by sassyfox

In the pebble room Andy confronted the 'popular crew' about talking about Hughie.

After a while Sam & Andy got into it where Andy asks if Sam has talked about anyone behind their back. Sam says he hasn't and that Andy is speculating, trying to make him look bad. Andy literally gets up in silence and walks to the door. Only when Ryan asks him why he's leaving Andy says " I know when there's no point in continuing a conversation".

Thanks, I remember that, but Sam was blatantly lying because Andy heard him talking behind Hughies back. We all did! So what point was there in continuing? Andy could have called him a liar, he could have repeated what Sam said and embarrassed him, he could have hollered and made a scene, but he didn't, he chose to remove himself from the situation before he was tempted to do any of those things. I'm sure he was already feeling the pressure at having Laytesha screeching and going ballistic at him.
I'm sure he didn't do it to be deliberately rude Sassy. It's all in the context. Compared to most of them, he's a real gent.

[Maru]

Since when did this show become Battle of the Geniuses? It's a personality contest. Andy can have all the degrees in the world, but all the book knowledge in the world can't fix a ****ty attitude/personality.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

He's winning after that engagement. People love him

[mr rochester]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

He does listen. It's the likes of Lateisha, Hughie and Sam who screech over everyone else.And if he appears superior to most of the eejits in there, it's because he is.

This...

[Ammi]

...some great posts Sassy.....and really similar to where my thoughts are with Andy as well..I don't dislike him, I find him very interesting but I guess, what some are seeing as 'strengths'..?...I'm seeing as his very weaknesses and his flaws, as it were... Ultimately the aim should be to resolve something, otherwise what's the point? ...these words Sassy really say it beautifully...it's so brought into play about his apparent intelligence etc and his 'composure'...great traits to have, eh...?....but only if they bring positives both for him and for those around him../in his environment and on the whole, they're not...they are contributing to negative behaviour in others..because they're making others feel inferior and that could never be a good thing or ever bring a calming influence to the house..so for me, his communication is extremely poor...also because maybe he isn't that 'pompous/arrogant' person at all...he's just someone who is acting and re-acting in a way that has become something that his past and his environment and his life have 'advantaged' him in ...which is natural..but then he's coming across as being judgemental of others for the exact same thing....Hughie's a traveller, I believe..?...so I doubt that his environment has been about all sitting around the table and 'calmly resolving', either with family or peers etc....he's a product of his environment is he not..?...the same with Latisha and, ya know...people around her/in her life...the swearing etc and the shouting sometimes and it's just her, what she knows..?...why should they be judged for those things because they haven't had the advantages or influences that others may have had..?...and they have great and admirable qualities too...Lateysha has been a very caring/maternal and supportive presence in the house...Hughie may blow up and blow off in his anger but he does calm quite quickly and often apologises...that's a 'control' that he's learned in the same way as Andy has learned certain controls in his behaviour....we could see with Marco, how his 'spoilt' came into play in the house because of his privileges in life when he behaved grimly and said stuff like...'I have shoes worth more than you'...(or something similar..)...because (I believe..)...'a product of his life and his privileges..'..?...it's what we all are isn't it..and no different for Lateysha, Hughie or anyone else in the house with their typical behaviour patterns...so if Andy really was using his apparent intelligence, then he wouldn't be making them..and I mean any of them feel in some way inferior or less-educated..?...he would be making them feel their worth which for any human being is substantial....



..anyways, I loved him last night because he showed his vulnerabilities and an Andy that we haven't seen because he's 'controlled' that Andy...which I think has been a weakness, not a strength...Jet my man..just think about it and all of the things that you admire about him..?..if you were in the house also, you would probably hang out all day with Andy because of those things, would you not..?../find him a good person to be around..?...and I can understand that...but ONLY, ONLY if he was making you feel 'on a level' as it were...if he made you feel about this small, about this inadequate, about this dumb and etc etc..(points to something very small..)...you really wouldn't be seeing it quite the same because no one likes that feeling, baby...like Sassy, I do quite like him and find him intriguing....but for me, only because I do see his weaknesses and how poorly he's communicating himself because it's a fact that he's making some feel a bit 'inferior' for being who they are and who they can't help being....he's coming across as judging them for their breaks in life and things that they haven't had any control over....

[Ammi]

..that was a short post as well because I have work...

[Vanessa]

Love Andy

[Ammi]

..you know as well Jet that I'm going to get a bit defensive because my work is more with the 'Hughie's' whose abilities of 'control' and 'expression' are not what the 'Andy's' have had through no fault of their own... but who I can see have really achieved and are achieving something amazing in how they compose themselves and what they have and do seem to be learning...

[Beso]

Originally Posted by jet

But not everyone has to like or accept it. It takes all sorts. What are things coming to when someone not liking people talking behind backs is seen as a terrible characteristic to have..
Jason IS his friend and that's where his loyalty lies.

I suppose knowing someone for 2 weeks gives you the right to meddle in their personal affairs by repeating idle titty tattle.

[jet]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I suppose knowing someone for 2 weeks gives you the right to meddle in their personal affairs by repeating idle titty tattle.

I found it interesting last night when Georgina on BOTS was asked who she wanted evicted next, and she said Chelsea. Her reasons were that he was always repeating in Jason's ear what Charlie said about him and then repeating to Charlie what Jason said about her.
Did we see any of this on the HL shows? No. Did any of the HM's target or nominate him for this like they did with Andy? No. Jason is supposed to be Chelsea's friend just like Andy is. Andy was being loyal to his friend yet he's the one treated like he murdered someone. Unbelievable.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...anyways, I loved him last night because he showed his vulnerabilities and an Andy that we haven't seen because he's 'controlled' that Andy...which I think has been a weakness, not a strength...Jet my man..just think about it and all of the things that you admire about him..?..if you were in the house also, you would probably hang out all day with Andy because of those things, would you not..?../find him a good person to be around..?...and I can understand that...but ONLY, ONLY if he was making you feel 'on a level' as it were...if he made you feel about this small, about this inadequate, about this dumb and etc etc..(points to something very small..)...you really wouldn't be seeing it quite the same because no one likes that feeling, baby...like Sassy, I do quite like him and find him intriguing....but for me, only because I do see his weaknesses and how poorly he's communicating himself because it's a fact that he's making some feel a bit 'inferior' for being who they are and who they can't help being....he's coming across as judging them for their breaks in life and things that they haven't had any control over....

I too loved seeing the vulnerable side of Andy, and it isn't the first time. Remember how he broke down after hearing how hurtful some of the nominations were? I think we would have seen that side more (and a funny side too because I think we would see a great sense of humour if he 'let go' in there) if he hadn't been targeted from the start as being 'superior'. As you know, academic intelligence doesn't always equate to emotional intelligence and I think some others in the house might well be more emotionally intelligent than he is. So is that his fault any more than it is theirs that he is better educated etc?
Yes, I would most definitely hang out with him, probably more than any of them. I don't think he deliberately tries to make others look small and I think that aspect of him is blown way, way out of proportion. You see one thing then you look for it in everything that person does and suddenly that person becomes the 'thing'.
And we are all judgemental, to a certain degree. Just look around at our posts, just because we can do it in the safety of a forum and not directly so nobody can shun us for being judgemental...and Andy is being judged for being judgemental.
I see someone with a good heart whose way of dealing with things that bother him is the right way in his own mind (and I quite like the oddity and individualism of it!) but he is learning too - he listened to Jayne very quietly and told her he would take her advice on board - I don't think he was ever being malicious and most can see that because he is rather well liked by many, isn't he?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by jet

I found it interesting last night when Georgina on BOTS was asked who she wanted evicted next, and she said Chelsea. Her reasons were that he was always repeating in Jason's ear what Charlie said about him and then repeating to Charlie what Jason said about her.
Did we see any of this on the HL shows? No. Did any of the HM's target or nominate him for this like they did with Andy? No. Jason is supposed to be Chelsea's friend just like Andy is. Andy was being loyal to his friend yet he's the one treated like he murdered someone. Unbelievable.

Chelsea will get more noms than Andy today.

[Amy Jade]

Ammi

[Amy Jade]

Andy's 'breakdown' at the nominations were his own fault - if he doesn't like being called a snake don't crawl around the house stirring all day.

He is a proven liar, he lied to Jason's face about the discussion over his daughter - Charlie never even said anything she just confirmed what Jason had told Jayne and Andy twisted it so he would look like the noble white knight.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by jet

I found it interesting last night when Georgina on BOTS was asked who she wanted evicted next, and she said Chelsea. Her reasons were that he was always repeating in Jason's ear what Charlie said about him and then repeating to Charlie what Jason said about her.
Did we see any of this on the HL shows? No. Did any of the HM's target or nominate him for this like they did with Andy? No. Jason is supposed to be Chelsea's friend just like Andy is. Andy was being loyal to his friend yet he's the one treated like he murdered someone. Unbelievable.

Because Andy was caught out twice

The housemates are just now cottoning on to Chelsea being jus as bad.