[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No Niamh - NOT like THAT woman at all, because she obviously does not belong to that category of women who I have been referring to.

Why do I feel that I am ever on the defensive here?

I have made my point very clear over several posts.

I am and have been, referring to a specific type of woman who has different moral values than other 'ordinary' women.

I am not defending Trump, merely trying to explain that in his world - a totally alien world to that inhabited by we 'ordinary' mortals - the type of woman exists who DO tolerate sexual behaviour from Rich, Powerful and Famous men which would send any 'ordinary' woman running.

And they 'tolerate' and accept such behaviour because, in their calculations, being subjected to such behaviour - being 'moved on' - is moving them closer to their objective of being elevated INTO that world of the Rich, Powerful, and Famous.

Some very famous actresses of the distant and not so distant past have accepted such behaviour from powerful Directors and Film Studio Moguls on the infamous 'Casting Couch', as a means of 'making it to the top of the movie world', and there was no shortage of young women - some stunningly beautiful and intelligent - who lived within the Playboy Mansion, who were quite willing to answer Hugh Hefner's summons at any time of night and day.

Hugh Hefner! A revolting grey corpse of a man who made my skin crawl just looking at him.

And then there are the superficially 'glamorous barflies who allow themselves to be passed from footballer to footballer because they think it will elevate themselves into the glamorous life of the pro footballer's WAG.

These women do not frequent the local Working Men's Clubs or ordinary pubs and clubs of their native towns and cities - they MOVE to the places where the Rich, Powerful and Famous can be found.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, such women are as equally culpable as the Trumps out there, because they are empowering them and enabling them to indulge in their sexist behaviour.

In these circumstances, 'sexploitation' is a 'two way street', because these women are really exploiting the sexual tendencies of such men, just as surely as those men are exploiting them.

Of course, there will be times when Trump gets reversals - when he sexually assaults a woman who does NOT belong in the category which I am referring to, and it is then that such women should make a formal complaint to the police.

I'm sorry Kirk but it does sound like you're making excuses for him just because "some" women accept his lecherous advances doesn't entitle him to test it out on any woman he comes across..whether they report him to the police or not, he's a scumbag

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm sorry Kirk but it does sound like you're making excuses for him just because "some" women accept his lecherous advances doesn't entitle him to test it out on any woman he comes across..whether they report him to the police or not, he's a scumbag

If you read Kirk's post you will clearly see that he states... I am NOT defending Trump.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

If you read Kirk's post you will clearly see that he states... I am NOT defending Trump.

I did read his post, thanks for your input Johnny but I'm sure Kirk can speak for himself

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm sorry Kirk but it does sound like you're making excuses for him just because "some" women accept his lecherous advances doesn't entitle him to test it out on any woman he comes across..whether they report him to the police or not, he's a scumbag

I assure you that I'm not excusing him Niamh - I went off Trump a long time ago, and I agree that he is revolting.

Nothing is as Black and White to me as it appears to be to most others on here.

I do not like Jeremy Corbyn, but I see certain qualities in him which I have to admit.

I am not attached to any Political Party, so I see some good points in Tory, Labour and UKIP Manifestos, and see some good politicians within each party.

Whereas, there are a number of people on TIBB who - because they dislike a Politician, or a Political Party, or A TV Star, or Donald Trump or Nigel Farage - cannot see, or will not admit to seeing - ANY good at all in the aforementioned.

Hilary Clinton is repulsive to me. Donald Trump is repulsive to me, but if I RECOGNISE some truth i what they happen to claim, then I will address it.

By addressing the fact that some women who Trump may have encountered may be a type which I recognise, I am not legitimising any sexist conduct or leanings on the part of Trump.

I'm sorry if - despite my constant explanatory posts - you still feel that I am excusing Trump, or condoning his behaviour, because I'm not.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I assure you that I'm not excusing him Niamh - I went off Trump a long time ago, and I agree that he is revolting.

Nothing is as Black and White to me as it appears to be to most others on here.

I do not like Jeremy Corbyn, but I see certain qualities in him which I have to admit.

I am not attached to any Political Party, so I see some good points in Tory, Labour and UKIP Manifestos, and see some good politicians within each party.

Whereas, there are a number of people on TIBB who - because they dislike a Politician, or a Political Party, or A TV Star, or Donald Trump or Nigel Farage - cannot see, or will not admit to seeing - ANY good at all in the aforementioned.

Hilary Clinton is repulsive to me. Donald Trump is repulsive to me, but if I RECOGNISE some truth i what they happen to claim, then I will address it.

By addressing the fact that some women who Trump may have encountered may be a type which I recognise, I am not legitimising any sexist conduct or leanings on the part of Trump.

I'm sorry if - despite my constant explanatory posts - you still feel that I am excusing Trump, or condoning his behaviour, because I'm not.

Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself but hearing that audio and other comments he's made about women make him totally revolting and un suitable for the type of job he's going for.

It seems different to me with Donald, like with most Politicians you can see a good side and a bad side to them, with Donald Trump all i can see is a chauvinistic, racist and there's no way passed that for me

[Jack_]

I don't think this is akin to 'locker room banter' at all, personally. Well, perhaps some of it is - and no there isn't a problem with groups of men (or women, for that matter) talking explicitly about others in private, but some of the remarks he makes in this video go way beyond that.

He has basically admitted to sexually assaulting women, and believing that he can (and does) get away with it because of his wealth and status. Sure, there are always going to be both women and men who succumb to such things in their quest for capital or power, that's par for the course - but it's also important to acknowledge that a lot of these people are being exploited in the process. It works both ways, Trump and other people of a similar status use and abuse others because they've inherited a sense of authority that they believe put them beyond the law and the boundaries of acceptable conduct. Many of these women will be in positions where they don't speak out or feel scared to purely because of who they're dealing with - I mean you only have to look at the abuse uncovered by Yewtree to see that in action. People don't speak up because they feel like they won't be listened to or won't be believed. It's just another toxic attitude that comes with extraordinary wealth, as if we needed another reason to oppose such a thing

It's also worth pointing out that not all men (and not all women) engage in discussions like this. What an outdated notion

[Jack_]

Oh and can I just say to those who were enquiring how this was 'relevant' or 'news', that I think you'll find it is given how much coverage it's garnered I saw it was gaining traction so thought I'd share it, don't shoot the messenger

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I don't think this is akin to 'locker room banter' at all, personally. Well, perhaps some of it is - and no there isn't a problem with groups of men (or women, for that matter) talking explicitly about others in private, but some of the remarks he makes in this video go way beyond that.

He has basically admitted to sexually assaulting women, and believing that he can (and does) get away with it because of his wealth and status. Sure, there are always going to be both women and men who succumb to such things in their quest for capital or power, that's par for the course - but it's also important to acknowledge that a lot of these people are being exploited in the process. It works both ways, Trump and other people of a similar status use and abuse others because they've inherited a sense of authority that they believe put them beyond the law and the boundaries of acceptable conduct. Many of these women will be in positions where they don't speak out or feel scared to purely because of who they're dealing with - I mean you only have to look at the abuse uncovered by Yewtree to see that in action. People don't speak up because they feel like they won't be listened to or won't be believed. It's just another toxic attitude that comes with extraordinary wealth, as if we needed another reason to oppose such a thing

It's also worth pointing out that not all men (and not all women) engage in discussions like this. What an outdated notion

Brilliant post Jack

[bots]

There is no doubt that Trump is a disgusting man, but its a coming together of fates that have given him any chance at winning.

Bill Clinton is the most recent president to be in a sexual scandal, he was impeached .... he did dreadful things abusing his power, and he left office with a 70% approval rating, the highest rating of any modern day president.

So, for his wife to say that makes Trump unfit for office is a bit off, given she supported her husband through worse during his time in office.

Also, if Bill had a 70% approval rating, the american people clearly weren't that bothered by it either. So, ridiculous it may be, but given the circumstances, and who he is in competition with validates his bid for the presidency. If it had been any other candidate he was up against, he would already have lost.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

There is no doubt that Trump is a disgusting man, but its a coming together of fates that have given him any chance at winning.

Bill Clinton is the most recent president to be in a sexual scandal, he was impeached .... he did dreadful things abusing his power, and he left office with a 70% approval rating, the highest rating of any modern day president.

So, for his wife to say that makes Trump unfit for office is a bit off, given she supported her husband through worse during his time in office.

Also, if Bill had a 70% approval rating, the american people clearly weren't that bothered by it either. So, ridiculous it may be, but given the circumstances, and who he is in competition with validates his bid for the presidency. If it had been any other candidate he was up against, he would already have lost.

There is a difference with having an affair though and saying that you can and do grab womens p***ys and get away with it because you're a "star"

[bots]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There is a difference with having an affair though and saying that you can and do grab womens p***ys and get away with it because you're a "star"

it was a lot more than an affair though, there were a string of women, he abused his power, he lied under oath to the american people ..... couldn't make it up

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it was a lot more than an affair though, there were a string of women, he abused his power, he lied under oath to the american people ..... couldn't make it up

I miss Obama

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself but hearing that audio and other comments he's made about women make him totally revolting and un suitable for the type of job he's going for.

It seems different to me with Donald, like with most Politicians you can see a good side and a bad side to them, with Donald Trump all i can see is a chauvinistic, racist and there's no way passed that for me

Have you ever witnessed groups of women talking about sex? loud lewd women disgusting all the most intimate details about what they like to do to men? Have you ever witnessed women at clubs to see male strippers? have you seen how they behave? the only difference is men never complain.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There is a difference with having an affair though and saying that you can and do grab womens p***ys and get away with it because you're a "star"

trump just said it, clinton did it

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it was a lot more than an affair though, there were a string of women, he abused his power, he lied under oath to the american people ..... couldn't make it up

....no one knew that Bill would though when he was elected, people do abuse their power in positions but these things are not generally known in their character until they're in that position...what Trump is saying and thinks is amusing is sexual assault of females...and it's something that is known about him before he's 'got the job' and unfathomable that he could ever be a candidate...some school workers abuse their position but it's not known beforehand that they would...would we employ them or think it's ok to employ them if they had said inappropriate and worrying things before they had their positions...would we think that was ok, that they had been put in positions of trust and power..?...if someone was joining the police force but had shown aggression and prejudice against race...would he still be employed in the police force where they could abuse their positions..?....would we think that was ok...?...we know this about Trump so the thought of him still being elected in knowing this is just the dumbest, imaginable thing ..

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by the truth

trump just said it, clinton did it

...so it's best that it doesn't happen again then with someone who says it's what he does before he's got the job...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by the truth

Have you ever witnessed groups of women talking about sex? loud lewd women disgusting all the most intimate details about what they like to do to men? Have you ever witnessed women at clubs to see male strippers? have you seen how they behave? the only difference is men never complain.

..and there are equally many, many females who don't, please don't generalise ...and many, many males who don't see the 'joke' in sexual assault on females and would never think that what he said was ok in any way whatsoever...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....no one knew that Bill would though when he was elected, people do abuse their power in positions but these things are not generally known in their character until they're in that position...what Trump is saying and thinks is amusing is sexual assault of females...and it's something that is known about him before he's 'got the job' and unfathomable that he could ever be a candidate...some school workers abuse their position but it's not known beforehand that they would...would we employ them or think it's ok to employ them if they had said inappropriate and worrying things before they had their positions...would we think that was ok, that they had been put in positions of trust and power..?...if someone was joining the police force but had shown aggression and prejudice against race...would he still be employed in the police force where they could abuse their positions..?....would we think that was ok...?...we know this about Trump so the thought of him still being elected in knowing this is just the dumbest, imaginable thing ..

I think its obscene that Trump could be president. I also think its obscene that Hilary could be too. I'm not a judge of what is the worst "crime", i just know that both are not acceptable in a modern, forward thinking country that is supposed to be leading the world by example.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..and there are equally many, many females who don't, please don't generalise ...and many, many males who don't see the 'joke' in sexual assault on females and would never think that what he said was ok in any way whatsoever...

I didnt generalise , pls dont preach and pls dont deliberately mis read misinterpret and misrepresent posts....the point is loads of women behave like this, but escape criticism that is always thrown at men. Its yet more politically correct double standards. loose women preaching today, yet they and several other female dominated feminist shows laughed cheered and mocked when a man had his scrotum sliced off, nice. yet again they escaped punishment.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so it's best that it doesn't happen again then with someone who says it's what he does before he's got the job...

Originally Posted by Ammi

..and there are equally many, many females who don't, please don't generalise ...and many, many males who don't see the 'joke' in sexual assault on females and would never think that what he said was ok in any way whatsoever...

Exactly Ammi

[GiRTh]

Donald Trump called Paula Jones a “loser” in 1998

Trump commenting on Paula Jones in 1998 calling her a loser yet yesterday he called her, and the other three women, 'brave' when he paraded them just before the debate. Maybe he's had a change of heart but maybe he hasn't.

In another back in 1998 interview he calls all the Clinton accusers a bunch of 'unattractive women' but yesterday he had clearly changed his mind and called them all, again, 'brave'.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ive-women.html

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Hang on... young women who are exploited, harassed and assaulted in their careers that is their fault?

1. Yes, the TYPE of women whom I have identified THREE times now ARE culpable - IF they have allowed Trump or anyone else to do this because it suits their purpose.
:/

It matters not how old the clip is he has admitted they were his words nobody put them in his mouth thererfore voters have a choice whether or not to vote for someone who even at that time was no spring chicken, he was 50+!

2. I NEVER said that they were not Trumps words, or that someone had put them in his mouth.

I also never said anything about 'Voters choices' either.

So so once again you are 'popping up' to leap on a post of mine to deliberately MISREPRESENT what I have CLEARLY said.



I doubt 'most' men are that disrespectful, surely it is the circles you move in and the company you keep that determines the calibre of the conversation?

3. I don't CARE what YOU doubt.

I have boxed and 'Circuit Trained' since I was 8 years old, and for decades therefore, have been in a - predominantly 'Working Class' Men's Locker Room environment.

For years, I regularly played Squash Rackets at Linton Squash Club, so for years I have been in a - predominantly 'Middle to Upper Middle Class' Locker Room environment.

In addition being a red-blooded male, of DIFFERENT ages THROUGH the decades, I have often been in the company of other males of widely differing backgrounds.

And I can ASSURE you, that your barbed comment that; "surely it is the circles you move in and the company you keep that determines the calibre of the conversation?" - is a LOAD OF TOSH.

MALE SEXIST BANTER has NOTHING to do with 'class' or background. Nor is it to do with AGE or Decade.

MEN do talk lewdly about women when they are in all male company.

Just as I KNOW that a lot of females talk lewdly about men when they are in all female company.

Not ALL males ALL the time, but unless you have led a very sheltered life, have a very poor grip on the realities of life, or are just seizing an opportunity to 'have a go', then I will educate you.

1. How is that relevant here? as said the woman subjected to his advances as explained in the taped conversation wasn't that 'type'. And as I have explained women harassed in their respective careers are not that type of woman either.

2. I didn't 'pop' anywhere, I replied to your comment is all. You inferred that the host encouraged the conversation, I disagreed that's not misrepresentation.

3. You might not care but I'll respond anyway, my comments are not in any way barbed. All I see is excuses after excuses for what you term yourself as sexist banter.
I agree that it matters not what background you come from if you enjoy base, degrading misogynistic conversations then you seek out same... I have not led a sheltered life far from it which is why I can express this view with confidence.
This is me having my say on the subject, not having a go this is a discussion forum.

(I have number my responses to your various points for your convenience.)

[the truth]

The priorities of this debate and so many killay fans is mindboggling? This irrelevant drivel of trump talking nonsense to kill time in a bus, is seen as more important than discussing the 1 million dead iraqis in the illegal war hillary voted for?

[Northern Monkey]

Lets face it.The type of women that have hung around Trump all his life are the type of women who will drop to their knees or drop their knickers at one sniff of a dollar bill.It's no wonder his view of women is the way it is.He's learned from first hand experience.It's just that not all women are like the sort he's used to and his view doesn't translate well outside his bubble.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Lets face it.The type of women that have hung around Trump all his life are the type of women who will drop to their knees or drop their knickers at one sniff of a dollar bill.It's no wonder his view of women is the way it is.He's learned from first hand experience.It's just that not all women are like the sort he's used to and his view doesn't translate well outside his bubble.

What like his mum, aunties, teachers, neighbours, shop assistants and friends?

Are you suggesting this man has never been capable of a normal relationship with a woman?.... Poor guy, he truly needs help then.