[Crimson Dynamo]

President Donald Trump's administration on Wednesday revoked landmark guidance to public schools letting transgender students use the bathrooms of their choice, reversing a signature initiative of former Democratic President Barack Obama.

Reversing the Obama guidelines stands to inflame passions in the latest conflict in America between believers in traditional values and social progressives, and is likely to prompt more of the street protests that followed Trump's Nov. 8 election.

Obama had instructed public schools last May to let transgender students use the bathrooms matching their chosen gender identity, threatening to withhold funding for schools that did not comply. Transgender people hailed the step as victory for their civil rights.

Trump, a Republican who took office last month, rescinded those guidelines, even though they had been put on hold by a federal judge, arguing that states and public schools should have the authority to make their own decisions without federal interference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN161243

The White House said President Donald Trump believes the issue is for the states to decide without federal involvement.

The White House released a statement in January which said: "President Donald J Trump is determined to protect the rights of all Americans, including the LGBTQ community.

"President Trump continues to be respectful and supportive of LGBTQ rights, just as he was throughout the election."


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world...-a3473786.html

Donald getting rid of Big Government interference and giving powers back to the people.

Thoughts?

[Vicky.]

Bloody hell, something he does that I agree with 100%

Loos, changing rooms, etc are separated by SEX, not gender...which amounts to not much more than dress sense and ones personality. And should remain so. Fair enough once someone has had a 'sex change' but before that and on self identification only..a whole world of nope.

Schools should not be forced to let boys into girl changing rooms. We are having issues with my stepdaughters school and this at the moment despite our laws not saying schools have to. Basically a pervy lad has decided he is now a girl and as such is let in the girls areas. the girls are up in arms as this lad has form for basically..being a perv. And the school are just enabling it. A group of girls are currently changing in the small staff room as they refuse to change infront of him. This same group are being called transphobic by a small group of young liberals. Its a bit of a mess tbh

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody hell, something he does that I agree with 100%

Exactly what I was going to say. It's a bit of a shocker, really...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Exactly what I was going to say. It's a bit of a shocker, really...

This was one of the issues that I was polar opposite with Obama on. I do not think 'gender' (which is dress sense, personality, and a 'feeling' in ones head) should trump sex ever. Its just nonsensical. Why have separate areas for males and females, when its not in all cases?! Why not have everything communal?

I mean, in this country we have violent male prisoners, hell male prisoners who are in prison for/have raped females put in with the females because...feelings. **** that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This was one of the issues that I was polar opposite with Obama on. I do not think 'gender' (which is dress sense, personality, and a 'feeling' in ones head) should trump sex ever. Its just nonsensical. Why have separate areas for males and females, when its not in all cases?! Why not have everything communal?

I mean, in this country we have violent male prisoners, hell male prisoners who are in prison for/have raped females put in with the females because...feelings. **** that.

At work the toilets are non-gender specific. If I go to a gay club with my friends, the toilets are non-gender specific, certainly in 'Heaven'... everyone seems to be able to get on with it without the sky falling down.

[Niamh.]

I actually agreed with it for a while but Vicky changed my mind on it when she went deeper into the potential issues with it that I hadn't really considered before. I'm all for protecting transgenders rights but not at the expense of womens rights/right to feel safe.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

At work the toilets are non-gender specific. If I go to a gay club with my friends, the toilets are non-gender specific, certainly in 'Heaven'... everyone seems to be able to get on with it without the sky falling down.

Yeah our toilets here are non gender specific but they're individual rooms

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody hell, something he does that I agree with 100%

Loos, changing rooms, etc are separated by SEX, not gender...which amounts to not much more than dress sense and ones personality. And should remain so. Fair enough once someone has had a 'sex change' but before that and on self identification only..a whole world of nope.

Schools should not be forced to let boys into girl changing rooms. We are having issues with my stepdaughters school and this at the moment despite our laws not saying schools have to. Basically a pervy lad has decided he is now a girl and as such is let in the girls areas. the girls are up in arms as this lad has form for basically..being a perv. And the school are just enabling it. A group of girls are currently changing in the small staff room as they refuse to change infront of him. This same group are being called transphobic by a small group of young liberals. Its a bit of a mess tbh

Omg that's crazy.Tbf many lads at school when i was there would've tried that on.The school should have more sense than to pander to it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

At work the toilets are non-gender specific. If I go to a gay club with my friends, the toilets are non-gender specific, certainly in 'Heaven'... everyone seems to be able to get on with it without the sky falling down.

Well yes, this is the point. Either get rid of 'sex' separated loos...or don't. But it makes not a bit of sense to keep sex segregation...but not in some cases? Personally I would prefer mixed loos, less queues tbh

The loos aren't really the issue for me. Its more, changing rooms and places like prisons, crisis centres and that.

Also in schools...loos ARE an issue. IMO anyway. I can remember being a teenager/younger. I would have been mortified starting my period and trying to sort that out with a boy looking over the cubicle at me I was mortified even without that

[Cal.]

They should just have unisex ones where everyone goes together.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cal.

They should just have unisex ones where everyone goes together.

For adults, I 100% agree. For teens though, not so much.

[Livia]

Not sure I feel the same about transgenders in prison, I think that's a whole new discussion. I think there should be provision made for them... not sure whether they should altomatically be able to use their chosen toilet. It's a minefield I know...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Not sure I feel the same about transgenders in prison, I think that's a whole new discussion. I think there should be provision made for them... not sure whether they should altomatically be able to use their chosen toilet. It's a minefield I know...

It is a minefield, I'm all for equality and am very sympathetic to transgenders, it most be very hard for them but we also have to consider womens rights and their right to feel safe. I think someone pointed this out in another thread already but you never ever hear of a transgender woman wanting to be moved into a mens prison ........

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Not sure I feel the same about transgenders in prison, I think that's a whole new discussion. I think there should be provision made for them... not sure whether they should altomatically be able to use their chosen toilet. It's a minefield I know...

There are enough transgender prisoners (or who claim they are transgender) to have a separate wing in a couple of prisons up and down the country I am sure. This seems the only option. I do not think females should be thrown under the bus on this issue, which seems to be whats happening and with no resistance.

[Northern Monkey]

For prisons the only solution is to have a transgender wing somewhere imo.A transgender will be bullied or worse in a male or female prison.Female prisoners won't want go in the showers or toilets with a man and a male to female transgender wont want to go in the showers with a load of sexually frustrated male prisoners.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There are enough transgender prisoners (or who claim they are transgender) to have a separate wing in a couple of prisons up and down the country I am sure. This seems the only option. I do not think females should be thrown under the bus on this issue, which seems to be whats happening and with no resistance.

Beat me

[Tom4784]

He's done it for the wrong reasons (to spite Obama and try to undo everything he did in his administration) but it's not entirely wrong. It's a difficult issue but I do agree with Vicky that it's a matter of sex and not gender, as soon as they transition then it's fair game.

The solution before that would be a third bathroom if the transgender students aren't comfortable with the bathroom of their birth gender.

[Glenn-C]

Originally Posted by Cal.

They should just have unisex ones where everyone goes together.

.

[Alf]

I've decided, I want my own bathroom just for me. Every establishment should now build a new bathroom just for me, and if they don't, they're sexist, misogynist pigs, who are against progressive values.



I've changed my mind, I just want to use the female bathroom, so I can have a good perv, because that's what I've now decided who I am, and everyone should respect that, if you're progressive.


Everyone should respect the fantasies in my head, if I decide I want to play them out.

[Northern Monkey]

There's already disabled toilets in place.Just let them use that.Would save having to build extra unisex toilets.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody hell, something he does that I agree with 100%

Loos, changing rooms, etc are separated by SEX, not gender...which amounts to not much more than dress sense and ones personality. And should remain so. Fair enough once someone has had a 'sex change' but before that and on self identification only..a whole world of nope.

Schools should not be forced to let boys into girl changing rooms. We are having issues with my stepdaughters school and this at the moment despite our laws not saying schools have to. Basically a pervy lad has decided he is now a girl and as such is let in the girls areas. the girls are up in arms as this lad has form for basically..being a perv. And the school are just enabling it. A group of girls are currently changing in the small staff room as they refuse to change infront of him. This same group are being called transphobic by a small group of young liberals. Its a bit of a mess tbh

I agree entirely - always thought it was a terrible idea.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I actually agreed with it for a while but Vicky changed my mind on it when she went deeper into the potential issues with it that I hadn't really considered before. I'm all for protecting transgenders rights but not at the expense of womens rights/right to feel safe.

and men would be put into a difficult situation too

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

There's already disabled toilets in place.Just let them use that.Would save having to build extra unisex toilets.

good point , disabled toilets are unisex

[user104658]

I'm not 100% set on my opinion on the actual issue really so it would be wrong to pretend that I am.

In general, though, I would say that I'm not against the idea of devolving the issues to the discretion of individual states. The more of that, the better, to be honest, in a country as geographically large and highly populated as the US. Yes it creates some problems with there being differences from state to state but - on the other hand - with the US being as divided as it is, it's probably a good idea to have as much devolution as possible so that people have more choice in living somewhere that aligns with them The option to move from a red state to a more liberal state and have the law of the land there more accurately represent your own values, for example, or vice versa, rather than having sweeping rules set by only half of the population. I'd happily see the vast majority of laws, rules and regulations, healthcare, welfare, most taxation etc. devolved to each state with only the real Big Picture stuff coming from Washington (defense, international trade, et al).

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody hell, something he does that I agree with 100%

Loos, changing rooms, etc are separated by SEX, not gender...which amounts to not much more than dress sense and ones personality. And should remain so. Fair enough once someone has had a 'sex change' but before that and on self identification only..a whole world of nope.

Schools should not be forced to let boys into girl changing rooms. We are having issues with my stepdaughters school and this at the moment despite our laws not saying schools have to. Basically a pervy lad has decided he is now a girl and as such is let in the girls areas. the girls are up in arms as this lad has form for basically..being a perv. And the school are just enabling it. A group of girls are currently changing in the small staff room as they refuse to change infront of him. This same group are being called transphobic by a small group of young liberals. Its a bit of a mess tbh

The problem I have with this is that there are so many cases of transgender people who aren't allowed to complete their sex reassignment surgery so it's not always as simple as that. I think I've mentioned before my friend who is female to male transgender, he underwent hormone treatment, was given the surgery to have his breasts removed, but he was denied his final surgery (for complicated reasons that I don't fully understand tbh and I haven't really asked him for the specific details lol, it's pretty upsetting for him to talk about, but it was something to do with failing part of a psychological assessment near the end of the process I think), but because of that his 'sex' is technically still female but he's absolutely a man and if you met him you wouldn't think otherwise. In fact if he used a female bathroom he'd probably be reported


I understand what some people are saying about how some men may use laws like this to perv on women etc but every single system/institution/law in the world has examples of abuses within it and I don't think we should rule on whether a system should be in place because of those people. We deal with those people and those situations when they happen but have the systems in place to benefit the majority who are just decent people who want to live their lives.

All that needs to happen with something like this is that if a non transgender student tries to abuse the system to use the wrong bathroom, they get punished. I don't understand why girls would feel uncomfortable if there are male to female transgender students using the female bathroom, unless the discomfort is to do with transgender people, but it's steps like the Obama policy that help things like that seem more 'normal' and less of an issue/something to feel uncomfortable about, it happens over time though. And yes there's examples like the pervy boy using the girls changing room and I completely understand those fears but I honestly think that rather than situations like that growing and getting worse, the opposite will be true because the closer society gets to normalising transgenderism, people will see it less as something to pretend to be and more as something that people just are. And if I'm wrong and it turned out that hordes of male students were using it to be perverts, and 'fake transgenderism' became a major problem, then the order can be rescinded.

But it's like when gay rights were a big issue and laws were changing there were a lot of fears about the 'promotion' of being gay, that more people would decide to be gay, that gay people would be more dangerous to society because of their lifestyles etc etc, and there will have been odd examples to back up those fears, but things were changed regardless and life for gay people is dramatically better today than it was say 20 or 30 years ago, and the fears turned out to be unfounded. I know it's not exactly the same but there's fears when anything big like this changes, the way I see it though is there's huge potential benefits in terms of making big changes in society's attitudes and for the lives of transgender people, (and something does need to change considering the shocking suicide rate) the majority of who are just decent ordinary people who shouldn't be punished because some people (just as in any 'group' of people) are bad.