[Brillopad]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7738721.html

This makes for an interesting read.

[Withano]

Thing is for me though, that if zero of his proposed policies come true (some or most will, taxing huge companies will obvso get you some dollar, article is being irrational... but for debates sake, lets go zero policies coming true) - then there would be little changes to the UK. The competition is proposing **** that I believe will make large changes to the UK, for the worse.
If its a fight between no policies, and bad policies, he still gets my vote.

[Northern Monkey]

Well.....

So far more legitimate than the Tories as they've not released any

Well except for the leaked breakfast bungle

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well.....

So far more legitimate than the Tories as they've not released any

Well except for the leaked breakfast bungle

To be fair, they don't have much costing to do, they are not promising change change change and presents on the Christmas tree for everyone.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by smudgie

To be fair, they don't have much costing to do, they are not promising change change change and presents on the Christmas tree for everyone.

Excellent point smudgie.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Excellent point smudgie.

So you don't think the tories need to release any costings to state what the impact of future cuts will be.... Why?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So you don't think the tories need to release any costings to state what the impact of future cuts will be.... Why?

I didn't say that, but smudgies's point is correct they are not proposing sweeping changes in the way Labour are.

Corbyn has said all the right things, made all the right promises, promises he knows many want to hear - the practicalities and figures of which are still unproven by an independent source.

[Withano]

aka tories are promising cuts with no benefits, but thats okay cos taxing corporations might not get billions, even though a child could literally work out that it can, but like a tory has never said it could work sooo dont count.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I didn't say that, but smudgies's point is correct they are not proposing sweeping changes in the way Labour are.

Corbyn has said all the right things, made all the right promises, promises he knows many want to hear - the practicalities and figures of which are still unproven by an independent source.

They are... We just don't know what they are or what's being cut or introduced to pay for them. There's a difference.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They are... We just don't know what they are or what's being cut or introduced to pay for them. There's a difference.

Well people will be voting blindly then and if it all backfires on them they can only blame themselves and of course Corbyn.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Well people will be voting blindly then and if it all backfires on them they can only blame themselves and of course Corbyn.

How are they voting more blindly on policies costed than they are on the tories uncosted ones?... You're making little sense.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How are they voting more blindly on policies costed than they are on the tories uncosted ones?... You're making little sense.

Because we can only go on what we are being told from a party desperate to get voters on board. If the figures aren't right or further down the line, if he won, he backtracked saying the figures were wrong people will have been misled.

One way or the other people will be voting on faith alone mixed with a substantial amount of fear of another austere Tory government.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Because we can only go on what we are being told from a party desperate to get voters on board. If the figures aren't right or further down the line, if he won, he backtracked saying the figures were wrong people will have been misled.

One way or the other people will be voting on faith alone mixed with a substantial amount of fear of another austere Tory government.

And the tory voters will be blindly voting in the vain hope that however bad it gets it will somehow affect everybody elses family and not theirs.

[DemolitionRed]

The problem with mainstream economists like Ben Chu is, they never touch on 'public debt' and public debt is what determines the level of the economy. If you don't talk about public debt you may as well be doing economics for nursery school kids.

For the last 7-8 years we have had our government relying on public borrowing and peoples buoyant bank accounts. We are quite literally bailing the government out on a daily basis. It taxes the people more than it spends on the people. Public debt is a sign of the state of the economy but it not the cause of the state of the economy... that's austerity. No wonder they avoid talking about it!!

Right now we are sitting in a “inflationary gap” Employment is looking better and factories are working overtime but its not sustainable. If we don't keep borrowing. If we tighten our belts and stop spending this house of cards will fall down. Personal debt is the only way neoliberalism can survive and if that doesn't frighten you, then your not understanding the fragility in this.

This present government can promise us nothing because it simply doesn't have the money to pay.

Labour want to move away from neoliberal economics. Its something we should of done after the world crash but instead we set ourselves a course for our economy to go backwards.

Now Labour want to do what Brown should of done https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9zgRciHBWw

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And the tory voters will be blindly voting in the vain hope that however bad it gets it will somehow affect everybody elses family and not theirs.

In fairness to the majority of Tory voters, I think its about feeling safe. The Tories are very good at playing 'Daddy'. "Give your money to Daddy and he will look after it for you. Give all your private access to Daddy and he's going to make sure you are safe when you go out with your friends. Vote for Daddy and he's going to make sure that nasty bogey man isn't going to steal your money and make your world unsafe".

[DemolitionRed]

They all too easily suggest Labour’s plans ‘won't work’ because those who have little understanding or interest in economics will take it to be an undeniable fact.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

In fairness to the majority of Tory voters, I think its about feeling safe. The Tories are very good at playing 'Daddy'. "Give your money to Daddy and he will look after it for you. Give all your private access to Daddy and he's going to make sure you are safe when you go out with your friends. Vote for Daddy and he's going to make sure that nasty bogey man isn't going to steal your money and make your world unsafe".

Who are you to say what YOU think Tory supporters think? and why are you posting as though none of the Tory supporters on here will read your posts? You don't know how Tory supporters think in your minds they are all off their rockers with no understanding of politics ,the way the Tory supporters are vilified in here makes me want to support them more tbh. making out labour are so lily white and true to their word,you might not like TM but at least what you see is what you get,as for Corbyn,well he's a man of many alliances isn't he?Likes the odd terrorist does he not?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

They all too easily suggest Labour’s plans ‘won't work’ because those who don’t have little understanding or interest in economics will take it to be an undeniable fact.

Who are 'they' ? don't tell me,not another back handed dig at Tory voters

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And the tory voters will be blindly voting in the vain hope that however bad it gets it will somehow affect everybody elses family and not theirs.

I voted Tory last time and it affected my family,i just understood we all have to sacrifice a little sometimes, none of us starve or go without our luxuries, this is the UK we are one of the luckier countries..

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Who are you to say what YOU think Tory supporters think? and why are you posting as though none of the Tory supporters on here will read your posts? You don't know how Tory supporters think in your minds they are all off their rockers with no understanding of politics ,the way the Tory supporters are vilified in here makes me want to support them more tbh. making out labour are so lily white and true to their word,you might not like TM but at least what you see is what you get,as for Corbyn,well he's a man of many alliances isn't he?Likes the odd terrorist does he not?

You beat me to it Kazanne - I too found that and other similar posts very patronising. If Tory voters are being led along by their noses what does that say about labour voters led along by all those empty promises.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You beat me to it Kazanne - I too found that and other similar posts very patronising. If Tory voters are being led along by their noses what does that say about labour voters led along by all those empty promises.

Patronising is the right word brillo,no need for it,we have different opinions that is all, maybe it's to put people off posting,it's worked a bit I think,but I wont shut up,lol

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Who are you to say what YOU think Tory supporters think? and why are you posting as though none of the Tory supporters on here will read your posts? You don't know how Tory supporters think in your minds they are all off their rockers with no understanding of politics ,the way the Tory supporters are vilified in here makes me want to support them more tbh. making out labour are so lily white and true to their word,you might not like TM but at least what you see is what you get,as for Corbyn,well he's a man of many alliances isn't he?Likes the odd terrorist does he not?

You wouldn't be suggesting you're getting vilified and the Left aren't? Its called "tasting your own medicine"... bitter isn't it?
If my words want to make you support the Tories more, that's absolutely fine by me but then I was never attempting to convert you

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You beat me to it Kazanne - I too found that and other similar posts very patronising. If Tory voters are being led along by their noses what does that say about labour voters led along by all those empty promises.

You have the right to be offended. Do I have the right to offend?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Patronising is the right word brillo,no need for it,we have different opinions that is all, maybe it's to put people off posting,it's worked a bit I think,but I wont shut up,lol

Actually it did the opposite. When I put up some intelligent discussion it went very quiet on this thread but the moment I said something that offended you, you jumped straight back in. I could of put money on it!!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You wouldn't be suggesting you're getting vilified and the Left aren't? Its called "tasting your own medicine"... bitter isn't it?
If my words want to make you support the Tories more, that's absolutely fine by me but then I was never attempting to convert you

I don't need converting,I have a mind of my own thankyou,take a good look through the threads and see the ratio of patronising posts towards anyone who doesn't agree with you.