[Tom4784]

It was a good episode although all the reveals were spoiled ahead of time.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

DS seem to have the idea that she's a far into the future version for some reason.

I'm not convinced she's far into the future as in several regenerations - although it is sort of suggested that the Missy regeneration has been around for a long time as she is now, so potentially several hundred years since she was The Master. That wouldn't really explain not remembering, though, as Matt Smith's Doctor for example, even towards the end of the Smith run, still remembered old companions like Rose / remembered specific details about being the Tennant doctor even though we know that "Smith Doctor" was around for several hundred years (900ish years old to 1200ish years old isn't it?).

Also the Tennant Doctor remembers Sarah Jane and K9 as though he had only just left them, and he's several regenerations on from the one she knew?

So her not remembering it can't be as simple as it just being too far in the past... I'm sure Time Lords are supposed to basically have infinite memory and perfect recall unless it's something that's deliberately removed (like Clara). They also sort of went into that with the immortal Aria Stark thing... She lives forever but because she has a human brain, she can't remember more than a few hundred years at a time other than the major events, and that's described as being different to TimeLords who can remember it all. Though they never explained why it doesn't seem to apply to Capt. Jack who doesn't seem to have any memory issues .

But yeah I reckon her memory of these events must have been deliberately removed, either by herself or the doctor.

Also. Where is this Simm's version from because he's obviously post-series 3 as he mentioned being Harold Saxon (I assume the reason he disguised himself for Bill), but he was also killed then and only resurrected for Tennant's last episode. What happened to him after that, I can't remember?

We didn't see anything between him defeating the Evil Time War Galifreyans and getting pulled into the time locked Galifrey, and the arrival of Missy ages later (after the entire Matt Smith era and as mentioned above, the doctor was that regeneration for hundreds of years of "his own" time, and never met any incarnation of The Master). I guess we'll probably find out how / when / where The Master escaped in this upcoming ep?

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not convinced she's far into the future as in several regenerations - although it is sort of suggested that the Missy regeneration has been around for a long time as she is now, so potentially several hundred years since she was The Master. That wouldn't really explain not remembering, though, as Matt Smith's Doctor for example, even towards the end of the Smith run, still remembered old companions like Rose / remembered specific details about being the Tennant doctor even though we know that "Smith Doctor" was around for several hundred years (900ish years old to 1200ish years old isn't it?).

Also the Tennant Doctor remembers Sarah Jane and K9 as though he had only just left them, and he's several regenerations on from the one she knew?

So her not remembering it can't be as simple as it just being too far in the past... I'm sure Time Lords are supposed to basically have infinite memory and perfect recall unless it's something that's deliberately removed (like Clara). They also sort of went into that with the immortal Aria Stark thing... She lives forever but because she has a human brain, she can't remember more than a few hundred years at a time other than the major events, and that's described as being different to TimeLords who can remember it all. Though they never explained why it doesn't seem to apply to Capt. Jack who doesn't seem to have any memory issues .

But yeah I reckon her memory of these events must have been deliberately removed, either by herself or the doctor.



We didn't see anything between him defeating the Evil Time War Galifreyans and getting pulled into the time locked Galifrey, and the arrival of Missy ages later (after the entire Matt Smith era and as mentioned above, the doctor was that regeneration for hundreds of years of "his own" time, and never met any incarnation of The Master). I guess we'll probably find out how / when / where The Master escaped in this upcoming ep?

The memory thing could be something as simple as the time streams correcting, like in the 50th - how the 10th Doctor wouldn't remember what had happened

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

The memory thing could be something as simple as the time streams correcting, like in the 50th - how the 10th Doctor wouldn't remember what had happened

True - and it was made pretty clear that the latest doctor in the time stream (Matt Smith at that point) would remember while 10th and the "war doctor" would forget. However Missy doesn't just not remember the things from where the two masters encounter each other... She doesn't seem to remember anything about the ship at all, even though it seems the master has been there for decades if not hundreds of years...

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True - and it was made pretty clear that the latest doctor in the time stream (Matt Smith at that point) would remember while 10th and the "war doctor" would forget. However Missy doesn't just not remember the things from where the two masters encounter each other... She doesn't seem to remember anything about the ship at all, even though it seems the master has been there for decades if not hundreds of years...

To be fair though, they were both in completely different parts of the ship and it probably took the 'Mondas' mention to trigger her memory, a little bit like how the portal thing triggered the Doctor's memories in the anniversary episode but nothing before that point did.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not convinced she's far into the future as in several regenerations - although it is sort of suggested that the Missy regeneration has been around for a long time as she is now, so potentially several hundred years since she was The Master. That wouldn't really explain not remembering, though, as Matt Smith's Doctor for example, even towards the end of the Smith run, still remembered old companions like Rose / remembered specific details about being the Tennant doctor even though we know that "Smith Doctor" was around for several hundred years (900ish years old to 1200ish years old isn't it?).

Oh I thought she did remember being the Master, it was just that she didn't recognise him in his disguise as she seemed to realise pretty quickly when he said "former Prime Minister" and ripped his mask off.

It was being on the ship as the Master she couldn't remember. I assume the same reason the Doctor doesn't remember meeting himself.

But then I suppose that begs another question of how and why The Master is there to save Missy from turning good.

[armand.kay]

I'm glad that I forgot it was a Cyberman episode because I was honestly so shook at the reveal.

[Marsh.]

Could there be a twist and Missy is a pre-Simm version?

So we see her regenerate into him rather than the other way around?

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Could there be a twist and Missy is a pre-Simm version?

So we see her regenerate into him rather than the other way around?

Did you just forget about Derek Jacobi?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Did you just forget about Derek Jacobi?

Missy to regenerate into Derek Jacobi and there's a glitch in the female to male change and he acts like his character from Vicious?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh I thought she did remember being the Master, it was just that she didn't recognise him in his disguise as she seemed to realise pretty quickly when he said "former Prime Minister" and ripped his mask off.

It was being on the ship as the Master she couldn't remember. I assume the same reason the Doctor doesn't remember meeting himself.

But then I suppose that begs another question of how and why The Master is there to save Missy from turning good.

I think Missy does remember being him, but she doesn't remember the ship or anything about it. But yeah that could be down to the "meeting your earlier self" thing, I got confused about the order of how it works, with the "oldest" version being the one to remember. That would mean Missy will remember this encounter, and the earlier version won't, which is why she doesn't now remember.

I don't think Missy will be an earlier incarnation of the Master than Simm... He didn't recognise her at first, he said it took him months watching on the screen to figure out who she was.

[Rob!]

Omg

Youtube video

It actually looks epic as ****. I hope Moffat does this one right. Looks like the biggest Cybermen episode ever.

[user104658]

Chan. The weird sexual tension thing they have going on with Capaldoctor and Missy, tho.

[user104658]

Here's a theory: The Master has to work with Missy and The Doctor in this upcoming episode against the Cyber men. After it all concludes... He doesn't remember any of it consciously, but subconsciously he remembers working side by side with the doctor. Perhaps he even in some way redeems himself - only to almost immediately forget that any of it ever happened - but the lingering impact would still be there buried. And that's what triggers the Missy incarnation of the master considering The Doctor "a friend" again, starting with her messed up attempt at a birthday "gift" of a cyber army for him.

Either that or its all been a ruse and Missy has been evil all along .

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Omg

Youtube video

It actually looks epic as ****. I hope Moffat does this one right. Looks like the biggest Cybermen episode ever.

Where are the old Cybermen

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Did you just forget about Derek Jacobi?

****ing scum

[Lostie!]

(Marsh that is, not Our Del)

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

****ing scum

[Lostie!]

Now I'm torturing myself with the prospect of a David Suchet Doctor vs Derek Jacobi Master that we're never going to have

Btw I watched Smile last night, I know it got mixed reviews but I liked it. And I liked how it ended with a direct segue into the next episode, that should become more of a regular thing imo.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Here's a theory: The Master has to work with Missy and The Doctor in this upcoming episode against the Cyber men. After it all concludes... He doesn't remember any of it consciously, but subconsciously he remembers working side by side with the doctor. Perhaps he even in some way redeems himself - only to almost immediately forget that any of it ever happened - but the lingering impact would still be there buried. And that's what triggers the Missy incarnation of the master considering The Doctor "a friend" again, starting with her messed up attempt at a birthday "gift" of a cyber army for him.

Either that or its all been a ruse and Missy has been evil all along .

Yeah. Something like that would make a hut more sense because this "trying to be good" Missy hasn't had all that much development or screentime.

Selfishly I actively want the Doctor to regenerate into Michelle Gomez for some bizarre reason.

But I am fully expecting some kind of Moffat style confusion where they both regenerate and we are left wondering which is which.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Now I'm torturing myself with the prospect of a David Suchet Doctor vs Derek Jacobi Master that we're never going to have

Btw I watched Smile last night, I know it got mixed reviews but I liked it. And I liked how it ended with a direct segue into the next episode, that should become more of a regular thing imo.

Slow bitch.

[Rob!]

Lostie how are you so behind you mess

[Lostie!]

I blame the ****ty Capaldi era theme music. CHANGE IT

[Marsh.]

I've actually strangely grown accustomed to it.

Especially since they reinstated the RTD sting to the cold opens.

[Lostie!]

Of course you have