[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Is it really a mystery to you? What choice to many have? It's either the staunch religious DUP or Sinn Fein, the political party of the IRA.
The likes of the moderate SDLP, OU's or Alliance don't even get a look in any more. A vote for any of them is a lost vote now. It's a fight between 2 obnoxious parties, and it's all we have at present.
If Sinn Fein got a larger majority than the DUP, then a United Ireland beckons ever closer in the minds of those who oppose it, and Sinn Fein, the party who supported those who killed thousands of innocents would have a majority and their leader would become First Minister. So to stop that happening, the only option for the Loyalists is to vote DUP, like them or not. Old wounds haven't healed yet, and probably never will. To many it is preferable to vote for a dinosuar party to one that is the official party of those who tried to bomb, kill and maim their way to a United Ireland that the majority didn't want - and the South themselves didn't want.
The mess continues....

The DUP is full of bigotry and prejudice, I cannot bear them,their ideas warrant being back centuries ago.
Anyone is better than them in Northern Irish politics for me.

They aren't even democratic either,they stand against public opinion in N.Ireland on abortion and even still on gay rights too.
So yes,it's a mystery to me why anyone supports such bigotry and prejudice.

Then again if lived in N Ireland,I'd be more supportive of there being a united Ireland anyway.
There won't be I doubt very much.

Meanwhile keep electing these bigoted candidates from the DUP,with their centuries ago bigotry stance,if you wish.
Sad for N Ireland that is,in my view.

I get fed up too at them moaning about not being able to do,and take anywhere, their at times inflammatory pathetic stuffed up human toby jug like marches.
I honestly cannot stand them or much they stand for.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The DUP is full of bigotry and prejudice, I cannot bear them,their ideas warrant being back centuries ago.
Anyone is better than them in Northern Irish politics for me.

They aren't even democratic either,they stand against public opinion in N.Ireland on abortion and even still on gay rights too.
So yes,it's a mystery to me why anyone supports such bigotry and prejudice.

Then again if lived in N Ireland,I'd be more supportive of there being a united Ireland anyway.
There won't be I doubt very much.

Meanwhile keep electing these bigoted candidates from the DUP,with their centuries ago bigotry stance,if you wish.
Sad for N Ireland that is,in my view.

I get fed up too at them moaning about not being able to do,and take anywhere, their at times inflammatory pathetic stuffed up human toby jug like marches.
I honestly cannot stand them or much they stand for.

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.

I consider Sinn Féin have more moved on from the troubled past.
Great wrongs on both sides and Unionist parties fuelled said troubles too.

Why would I say anything about Sinn Féin,this thread is about the DUP.
It is not Sinn Féin holding the present govt.to ransom in
Some way for their votes, it's only the DUP.

[smudgie]

Perhaps Mrs May was trying her hand so to speak.
Surely NI, as part of the U.K. should be treat the same way with the same rights as anyone living anywhere else in the UK.
The problem is sorting the borders out, there must be some way to find an amicable solution that will suit all.
Other EU countries have borders with none EU countries, maybe take a good look at them and see what works.

Edit. what will happen with Spain and Gibralter, I know they only have a small border so the cost etc will be massively different, but the same rules should apply to all UK citizens surely.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I consider Sinn Féin have more moved on from the troubled past.
Great wrongs on both sides and Unionist parties fuelled said troubles too.

Why would I say anything about Sinn Féin,this thread is about the DUP.
It is not Sinn Féin holding the present govt.to ransom in
Some way for their votes, it's only the DUP.

I've never seen you write a bad word about Sinn Fein, even in threads relating to them....and comparing them, as the official party of the IRA who murdered thousands of innocents to Unionist involvement in the killings and bombings is just ludicrous...and again, very telling as to your sympathies.
As a N.Ireland catholic (who doesn't practise their religion anymore, admittedly,) who lived here throughout the whole of the troubles, don't try to tell me what went on and who was responsible for the majority of the suffering.
The DUP, as bigoted as they are, were never the official party of any terrorist organisation. Sinn Fein have members in their party to this day who carried out bombings and killings and were released from prison, never serving their time, as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
You detest the DUP, I detest both parties, for very different reasons....but give me a bigot over a murderer of innocent children any day.

[jet]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

I really think you're wrong about that tbqh. I seriously doubt our government wants a united Ireland, it would be so much hassle for them, they can barely run the country as it is now. My main concern (and I think alot of peoples including the governments) is that a hard border could start up the troubles again. Also, we do trade alot with NI since they're the only country sharing land with us so obviously trade is important in this.

All very true. The North and South rub along very well together, all this is very worrying.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

I've never seen you write a bad word about Sinn Fein, even in threads relating to them....and comparing them, as the official party of the IRA who murdered thousands of innocents to Unionist involvement in the killings and bombings is just ludicrous...and again, very telling as to your sympathies.
As a N.Ireland catholic (who doesn't practise their religion anymore, admittedly,) who lived here throughout the whole of the troubles, don't try to tell me what went on and who was responsible for the majority of the suffering.
The DUP, as bigoted as they are, were never the official party of any terrorist organisation. Sinn Fein have members in their party to this day who carried out bombings and killings and were released from prison, never serving their time, as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
You detest the DUP, I detest both parties, for very different reasons....but give me a bigot over a murderer of innocent children any day.

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.

We have a referendum on it in a few months actually, polls would suggest we are not anti abortion and it's likely to be passed

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

All very true. The North and South rub along very well together, all this is very worrying.

Yeah it is. I still think it's odd that Teresa May said they had an agreement before talking to the DUP about it first though, I agree with others that she wants out if government and to pass it on to someone else.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

This is a much needed point. Modern politics in a modern Ireland.

The long war was a tragic one and SF's involvement with the IRA is somewhat troublesome but what SF are doing in todays Ireland is representing the voice of many Irish people. With Good Friday behind them, they aren't, by many, seen as republicans anymore but a political party that are anti-austerity in this on going economic turmoil.

[jet]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

We have a referendum on it in a few months actually, polls would suggest we are not anti abortion and it's likely to be passed

Currently its against the law though, except in cases of endangerment to the life of the mother. It would be a great step forward if that law was changed, and maybe N.Ireland would follow suit though the DUP would put up a fight.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Currently its against the law though, except in cases of endangerment to the life of the mother. It would be a great step forward if that law was changed, and maybe N.Ireland would follow suit though the DUP would put up a fight.

Yeah it should go through, fingers crossed, I think it'll be during the summer sometime I think

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

I can see this is a very emotional topic for you and that's understandable. I do know what its like to lose a loved one to war... or not even war but a stupid revolution where people get randomly murdered and I know what its like to live in a country where you dread that knock on the door late at night.

What the IRA did was needless and undoubtedly cruel and Sinn Fein's most certainly got blood on their hands. They have however, moved on to fight for the poor mans rights in a country, or part of a country still ruled by Britain.

Parties like the DUP rely on Sinn Fein's old reputation but remember this, so long as Sinn Fein is popular, you have a party, that in part ties the hands of parties like the DUP... they keep such parties harnessed and surely that has to be a good thing?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

I said they had family and friends in the North.

Don't assume or twist my wording jet.

I said people were list,friends in the North,yes by the IRA.
However things have to move on,as I said for those that can and will let it.

Nobody is ever saying forget the atrocities, however re-runjibg them at every opportunity is not that helpful either,as to any peace process.

My dislike of the DUP is their stance on issues now,at this moment in time right now.
They also seem,to me anyway, to like to keep the divisions going,especially with some of their ridiculous marches.

Anyway I've said my thinking, and am no longer going round in circles with you.
My views are clearly made as are yours.

[bots]

Originally Posted by NanaChristmas

Perhaps Mrs May was trying her hand so to speak.
Surely NI, as part of the U.K. should be treat the same way with the same rights as anyone living anywhere else in the UK.
The problem is sorting the borders out, there must be some way to find an amicable solution that will suit all.
Other EU countries have borders with none EU countries, maybe take a good look at them and see what works.

Edit. what will happen with Spain and Gibralter, I know they only have a small border so the cost etc will be massively different, but the same rules should apply to all UK citizens surely.

gib will go back to the enforced border that it always had. I'm sure you remember how isolated it once was, getting food etc by sea and air.

If sides won't compromise and agree on a solution, you propose one for them. That's standard practice and that's what May has done. Agreement will come at some point, but I still maintain, as with Spain, old political motives rule their attitudes.

[jet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I can see this is a very emotional topic for you and that's understandable. I do know what its like to lose a loved one to war... or not even war but a stupid revolution where people get randomly murdered and I know what its like to live in a country where you dread that knock on the door late at night.

What the IRA did was needless and undoubtedly cruel and Sinn Fein's most certainly got blood on their hands. They have however, moved on to fight for the poor mans rights in a country, or part of a country still ruled by Britain.

Parties like the DUP rely on Sinn Fein's old reputation but remember this, so long as Sinn Fein is popular, you have a party, that in part ties the hands of parties like the DUP... they keep such parties harnessed and surely that has to be a good thing?

It's not a good thing because while Sinn Fein remain popular, the DUP are guaranteed popularity to stop Sinn Fein having majority seats. So the other more moderate parties from both sides are becoming dead in the water. It's now just a Sinn Fein/DUP fight for the most power and neither party is doing N. Ireland any good at all.
For example, one sticking point to getting Stormont up and running again is Sinn Feins insistence on an Irish Language Act where they want the cost of translators in courts etc when everyone can speak perfectly good English in N. Ireland and very few can even speak the Irish Language. In other words, those that can speak it are insisting on it just because...what is the sense in that? and they want every street name put up in Irish as well as the existing English. What a waste of money better spent on essential services. Meanwhile all the parties are collecting their wages and not doing their jobs while funds are being withheld from hospitals and schools while the lot of them bicker and each side is as stubborn as the other.
It's a mess.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

gib will go back to the enforced border that it always had. I'm sure you remember how isolated it once was, getting food etc by sea and air.

If sides won't compromise and agree on a solution, you propose one for them. That's standard practice and that's what May has done. Agreement will come at some point, but I still maintain, as with Spain, old political motives rule their attitudes.

Yes. I can see all of that.
It has to be sorted, and you will always have winners and losers, or people that are happy with it and people that aren't.
Not easy.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

It's not a good thing because while Sinn Fein remain popular, the DUP are guaranteed popularity to stop Sinn Fein having majority seats. So the other more moderate parties from both sides are becoming dead in the water. It's now just a Sinn Fein/DUP fight for the most power and neither party is doing N. Ireland any good at all.
For example, one sticking point to getting Stormont up and running again is Sinn Feins insistence on an Irish Language Act where they want the cost of translators in courts etc when everyone can speak perfectly good English in N. Ireland and very few can even speak the Irish Language. In other words, those that can speak it are insisting on it just because...what is the sense in that? and they want every street name put up in Irish as well as the existing English. What a waste of money better spent on essential services. Meanwhile all the parties are collecting their wages and not doing their jobs while funds are being withheld from hospitals and schools while the lot of them bicker and each side is as stubborn as the other.
It's a mess.

I get what you're saying.

[Northern Monkey]

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.
Even with a no deal though a special arrangement needs to be made for NI and Ireland.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.

What a conundrum!

[Cherie]

Ireland holding the Brits to ransom, how times have changed

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.
Even with a no deal though a special arrangement needs to be made for NI and Ireland.

It's a terrible situation, things were going so well with with Britain, N.Ireland and Ireland as well the last few years. I really hope this gets sorted in a way to keep everyone happy but it's looking less and less likely now

[bots]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

It's a terrible situation, things were going so well with with Britain, N.Ireland and Ireland as well the last few years. I really hope this gets sorted in a way to keep everyone happy but it's looking less and less likely now

Its not really hard to resolve actually, what it actually requires is trust and a willingness to move forward and make it work. At the moment we are a long way from that position because there are too many agendas

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its not really hard to resolve actually, what it actually requires is trust and a willingness to move forward and make it work. At the moment we are a long way from that position because there are too many agendas

Looks like you need a job in government BOTS with all due respect you have it totally wrong thinking the Irish government wants a United Ireland.