[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zee

How condescending. Firstly, the protests are in part an angry reaction be being deceived by the Liberal Democrats who did a complete U-Turn on one of their manifesto promises; and considering that many students voted for the Lib Dems based on that promise, they've alienated their student support. Nobody is claiming that students are the only demographic of this country that are suffering; on the contrary the issue at hand is that these proposed changes are going to cause students to suffer more than they currently do - hence the riots. Your attitude towards students comes across as completely stereotypical and filled with hatred; so I'd like to explain my own situation in the hope that you'll stop and think for a minute that we're not all scrounging off the government and deserve to be penalised heavily for wanting to pursue academia.

I do not have a student loan and I have a part time job. I am a Scottish student, so my tuition fees are paid for by the government so long as I apply for them to be paid for before the academic year begins. That is the only aspect of my education that is paid for by somebody other than myself/my family; as a knock on effect of English universities raising their fees, many English school leavers hoping to go on to university will look to going places further afield: Scotland's significantly cheaper fees will attract lots more English students; making competition for places more difficult and disappointing students whose grades aren't good enough. What comes across in your post to me is that you're rolling your eyes at the idea of further education and think it's a waste of time - that's your opinion, but the fact remains that thousands of people of all different ages and backgrounds go to university to study each year and need some kind of financial support. Do your views apply to a single mother who is struggling to find employment so has gone to university as a mature student to get a good degree to aid her attempts to find a job? That's just an example of one type of person who isn't the 'typical student' that you seem to loathe.

There is no guarantee that someone who studies for a degree will get a well paid job - the job market is extremely competitive, a degree is no guarantee of employment. Being massively in debt (due to these proposed increases) and being unable to get a job because your CV still doesn't stand out from the crowd despite earning a degree, does that sound like an attractive prospect to you? In fact, it's a similar position to "the rest of us" who "have to struggle to survive in the real world" that you talked about in your post. We're all financially setback; if anything you're being prejudiced against students because of some preconceived stereotype that all students are lazy and just sit around getting drunk and doing nothing with their lives and then being handed a fantastic job - that's not the real world and I would have thought you of all people would know that, you're an intelligent poster!

I do agree with you about the rioting though - I firmly believe that the people causing trouble were, for the most part, hooligans who were there to cause trouble, and not students who were there to support the protest. Scenes like those captured in the media are just ridiculous displays of anti social behaviour and, you're spot on, do absolutely nothing to change anyone's mind about anything; instead it will only set people firmly against students. I really hope you read my post and at least concede that we're not all scroungers and wasters, some of us are here to learn and achieve something without being a burden on others.

I do not see how I have been at all condescending I have expressed a legitimate opinion about the standard of students who go to Uni these days, only a minority of whom actually achieve a worthwhile degree that is going to supposedly enrich our society in the future.

I would point out that it was the CONSERVATIVES won the last election NOT the LIB-DEMS, and the coalition is merely a marriage of convenience. Personally, I would have preferred the Conservatives to form a government without hindrance from a wishy washy party like the Lib-Dems (just Labour in a different form). It was the hypocritical LABOUR party that introduced fees in the first place, and used their 13 years in power to mortgage this country for the next couple of generations at least, so put the blame where it deserves to be.

Students are like a bunch of spoilt brats throwing their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. How about all the poor sods who have been made redundant or are subjected to wage freezes and are struggling to bring up families in this recession? What would happen if we all went on the rampage? What exactly would it achieve?

Going to University is a lifestyle choice and students should not expect others to fund it. They have already had free education up to the age of 19 which, sad to say, evidenced by some of the posts on this forum, has had little impact on some members' grammatical, spelling,mathematical and logic skills. As to stereotyping students, I haven't done that, they've managed it all by themselves by their appalling and unreasonable behaviour. There is also a degree of arrogance on their part since they believe themselves to be more deserving of funding than other members of society who are struggling to cope in this recession. Well they are not.

I had to leave school at 16 because I had to help to contribute to my family's finances, but I joined the Open University later on in life and achieved two degrees, a BA(Hons) and a BSc(Hons) as well as several diplomas, whilst being a single parent, bringing up two children and WORKING FULL TIME. I did NOT expect anyone else to pick up the tab because I had CHOSEN further study. I have no problem with further education, but why expect someone else to pay for it?

I note that a lot of your concern is about the fact that English students might start looking to go to Scottish universities, thereby reducing the number of places available to Scottish students! Welcome to our world here south of the border where the world and his wife clamour for scarce resources on every front: housing, schools, doctors, dentists, jobs etc etc. That's life, and students would do well to keep in mind what they are supposed to be preparing themselves for.