[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Maru

You're assuming that nobody reads your ideas what you write and gains value from it who doesn't participate. Those people just may never post (I lurk a lot myself), but your ability to remain reasonable/respectful may have made some impact further than you think. I don't think this simpyl because we can't really "measure" the result there of online communication. And I don't think that you can usually persuade people entirely in one argument. Usually you have to chip away a little bit at an issue before some other aspects become clear. Change very often happens in baby steps, not big ways like "OMG, you have shown me the way!". We expect way too much of others (I think) and of internet discussion. It's not often going to be this big epiphany for people like we hope it may be.

To clarify, I think of self-censorship is a category of several behaviors... 1) It can be the manipulating of words to the point of stripping out the actual meat (i.e. might as well be nothing) 2) It can be when you shut yourself down once the argument goes certain directions. Like you know you're certain things are about to occur that are meant to bully, so you clamp down... or 3), which I wonder if this is actually the most common, when you choose to say nothing at all because you feel that the forces against you to are too frustrating or insurmountable. Edit: To add to this, I think self-censorship is cowardice... but we've conflated this with being "decent", when that has different interpretations for different people. When individuals don't feel they fit into this box, that's where they begin to say PC is "oppressive". I actually think this is silly, just stop trying to fit into the box that isn't even made to fit them.

The one you're describing I think is mostly #1, and I'm not at all suggesting that "it's how you say it" is an effective force against extreme ideology. What I am saying is that PC culture has had such a huge impact on how we not only communicate but think. This affects everything from voting numbers (the 2018 US election was a pretty abysmal), to how often we leave our comfort zones (why expand your inputs when 99% of popular culture (which some treat as "society") agrees with one method), to self-censorship. It's made it very easy for more greedier forces to come in and make a space.

But it has taken many years for it to manifest to this level, so most younger people wouldn't have noticed there was a change... many just have now assume they were just born into this oppressive system and that there are all these checks and balances necessary to keep it at least functional (much less civil). Self-censorship compounds all that because obviously, cowardice, no other way to put it, and it gives false weight to moral judgements that may not always accurately pick up on the status quo.

My argument is basically we should just skip this BS. We don't need an overarching moral philosophy (which is what PC ultimately is) to guide our speech. It is more harm than it does good to the development/resilience of our culture as it breeds cowardice, not courage. And I think to some degree, this counter-culture has/is already emerging.

In some ways, you can say one of those modern inventions to counter this culture is the "Likes" system

Provided for folks like yourself no doubt who don't believe in free will? Nor the works of Locke, Stuart Mill, Wollstoncraft, Bentham...

At the risk of being labeled 'pc' I'm almost offended that people are told they are wrong for NOT wanting to be told what to think.... It's so fundamentally alien to me to have someone suggest that my moral integrity is worthless and may possibly even be detrimental to me because I refuse to be influenced.

I note you choose not to respond to me, maybe your indoctrination techniques are pointless here and you would rather not waste anyones time?

PC is not a new there was, is and forever will be differing schools of thought affecting every area of society, politics, culture, religion or philosophy.
Where is the 'unpc'? if there are these great swathes of people that are being carried along self censoring on the crest of a pc wave where is the 'unpc' equivalent?... there must be one as many people are influenced in the messages to the contrary of the 'pc' view.

I see no suggestion that these are poor self censoring cowards the opposite! they are brave, patriotic heros then surely?

Let's be perfectly honest PC is what you say to someone when you have no reasoned argument based in fact or logic, with which to base a theory so it's basically used as a get out clause to shield you from the fact that you're ignorant of anything but a very basic media inspired response to whatever debate is raging.

'Oh the PC brigade's here' = I have nothing of any merit or substance to add, this will have to do.