[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

^ don't you forget Hirohito to that list of names, or what was Japan's religion during that regime, i thought he also was part of the Axis regime along with Germany and Italy at world war II, so my point is, isn't he also part of that atheist regime you mentioned Kirk

Yes, of course, Nicky - Thank you.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Yes, of course, Nicky - Thank you.

no problem, world war II has been one of the subjects i had top marks for at school, one of the few subjects i had top marks for, unlike maths for example

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

no problem, world war II has been one of the subjects i had top marks for at school, one of the few subjects i had top marks for, unlike maths for example

Don't worry, Nicky, Diane Abbott is crap at maths (in fact crap at EVERYTHING) and it has not done her any harm career-wise.

[bots]

Jesus Christ, this threads gone on a bit

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Jesus Christ, this threads gone on a bit

nah, it's still about religion, so not really offtopic

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Don't worry, Nicky, Diane Abbott is crap at maths (in fact crap at EVERYTHING) and it has not done her any harm career-wise.

And the minister for war is a fireplace salesman... Which links beautifully to my theory that tories are the antichrist.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And the minister for war is a fireplace salesman... Which links beautifully to my theory that tories are the antichrist.

i thought trump was the antichrist, i can seem to remember reading that on here

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i thought trump was the antichrist, i can seem to remember reading that on here

Nope trump is just your common or garden megalomaniac.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nope trump is just your common or garden megalomaniac.

lol, i can imagine having a sort of donald trump garden knome merchandise, i think they would look cute

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Jesus Christ, this threads gone on a bit

On the road to Damascus

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

lol, i can imagine having a sort of donald trump garden knome merchandise, i think they would look cute

I spent thurs to sat in Whitby and in a gift shop there was a key ring, it was trump but with a hole in the bottom. It had some like brown goo in it and when you squeezed him it looked like he was having a large poo... it was very funny.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Just to redress a few misconceptions:

'Christianity' was NOT 'invented'. Christianity is a Religion which evolved from followers of the teachings of the historical Jesus.

Religion is NOT the cause of most Wars or bloodshed on this planet - Atheism and Secularity are:

1) Over the past 5,000 years and a total of 1,763 wars fought —only 123 (or about 7%) were religious in nature.

2) When the 66 wars which were waged in the name of Islam are removed, that number is cut down to a little more than 3%.

3) Atheism is responsible for a far greater degree of bloodshed than Christianity and all other religions combined with a body count of more than 100 million in the 20th century alone thanks to atheist regimes like Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Vladimir Lenin, and others.

Sources: ‘The Encyclopedia of War’ by Philip and Axelrod (Three Volumes), ‘Lethal Politics*and*Death by Government’ by R.J. Rummel, and the 2014 report from The Institute for Economics and Peace.

The idea that any non-religious war was therefore "caused by" atheism or secularity is completely false logic Kirk. Just because its "not one thing" does not mean it "must be the other thing".

What you're actually pointing out is that there are more non-religious wars than religious wars. But that does not mean those wars were "caused by atheism". They are usually caused by political differences or territorial disputes. "Atheism" doesn't come into it at all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

and it very much was invented when the Romans thought it was a good idea that the rebellious Jews stanned a peaceful gu like baby jesus and not pine after a warrior saviour

so they put the money in and hey presto

[Twosugars]

so now Jesus was a Roman spy and saboteur?
LT, you're on fire today

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

so now Jesus was a Roman spy and saboteur?
LT, you're on fire today

What has this thread become

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

so now Jesus was a Roman spy and saboteur?
LT, you're on fire today

No

That the Roman Authorities when they allowed Christianity to be practiced and
churches were quickly built not just in Rome but throughout the empire. Then they made worshiping other gods illegal.

Before the returning Messiahs always were portrayed as war like so the clever Romans did a PR number on the Jesus cult as it was peaceful and no threat to Rome and thuis quelled a rebellion from the jews.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

so now Jesus was a Roman spy and saboteur?
LT, you're on fire today

No... the Romans backed and funded fledgling Christianity 300 years after the death (martyrdom) of Jesus because it was politically beneficial for them to do so, for various reasons. That doesn't mean Jesus was a "plant". Just that they manipulated the situation into something that they thought would be advantageous to their empire. Why else would they fund and promote Christianity?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No... the Romans backed and funded fledgling Christianity 300 years after the death (martyrdom) of Jesus because it was politically beneficial for them to do so, for various reasons. That doesn't mean Jesus was a "plant". Just that they manipulated the situation into something that they thought would be advantageous to their empire. Why else would they fund and promote Christianity?

that is what i am saying I am not saying he was anything to do with them.

unfortunately this credence from authority gave it traction and allowed for doctrine to be established and ultimately the bible to be cobbled together

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The idea that any non-religious war was therefore "caused by" atheism or secularity is completely false logic Kirk. Just because its "not one thing" does not mean it "must be the other thing".

What you're actually pointing out is that there are more non-religious wars than religious wars. But that does not mean those wars were "caused by atheism". They are usually caused by political differences or territorial disputes. "Atheism" doesn't come into it at all.

Tbh if a war is about atheism then that involves religion because that implies the war was started due to atheism and being against religion.

Unless he means a lack of religion and atheism causes disruption in the world. But that's a matter of opinion than fact.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The idea that any non-religious war was therefore "caused by" atheism or secularity is completely false logic Kirk. Just because its "not one thing" does not mean it "must be the other thing".

What you're actually pointing out is that there are more non-religious wars than religious wars. But that does not mean those wars were "caused by atheism". They are usually caused by political differences or territorial disputes. "Atheism" doesn't come into it at all.

I'll settle for your opinion T.S because it is little more than pedantics to me and the point is that by far the hugest percentage of all wars are through non-religious causes.

Though you are arguing against the authors/compilers of the three sourcebooks given and not me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thing is due to advances in weapons, recent wars will always have far more deaths so you cant start to compare historically

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Tbh if a war is about atheism then that involves religion because that implies the war was started due to atheism and being against religion.

Unless he means a lack of religion and atheism causes disruption in the world. But that's a matter of opinion than fact.

I think the point was there's non religious wars therefore "Atheist" wars . But I think some people are misunderstanding.

There's wars without any mention of religion .

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No

That the Roman Authorities when they allowed Christianity to be practiced and
churches were quickly built not just in Rome but throughout the empire. Then they made worshiping other gods illegal.

Before the returning Messiahs always were portrayed as war like so the clever Romans did a PR number on the Jesus cult as it was peaceful and no threat to Rome and thuis quelled a rebellion from the jews.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No... the Romans backed and funded fledgling Christianity 300 years after the death (martyrdom) of Jesus because it was politically beneficial for them to do so, for various reasons. That doesn't mean Jesus was a "plant". Just that they manipulated the situation into something that they thought would be advantageous to their empire. Why else would they fund and promote Christianity?

Disagree. Have you both conveniently forgotten about bloody persecution of early Christianity? People were risking lives to practice their religion. 300 years is hardly quick for any religion to establish itself. Constantine stopped persecution of all cults, not just Christanity. The fact that he was the first emperor to convert gave Christanity the final impetus in becoming officially accepted.
It's true that adopting one official religion promoted stability in the empire. But Christianity was chosen because it was already relatively widespread and popular, a position it had achieved despite the state not because of it.
wikipedia:

Despite sometimes intense persecutions, the Christian religion continued its spread throughout the Mediterranean Basin.[68]

Various theories attempt to explain how Christianity managed to spread so successfully prior to the Edict of Milan (313). Some Christians saw the success as simply the natural consequence of the truth of the religion and of the direct intervention of God. However, similar explanations are claimed for the spread of, for instance, Islam and Buddhism. In The Rise of Christianity, Rodney Stark argues that Christianity triumphed over paganism chiefly because it improved the lives of its adherents in various ways.[69] Another factor, more recently pointed out, was the way in which Christianity combined its promise of a general resurrection of the dead with the traditional Greek belief that true immortality depended on the survival of the body, with Christianity adding practical explanations of how this was going to actually happen at the end of the world.[70] Mosheim (1693–1755) saw the rapid progression of Christianity as due to two factors: translations of the New Testament and the Apologies composed in defence of Christianity.[71] Edward Gibbon (1737–1794), in his classic The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776–1789), discusses the topic in considerable detail in his famous Chapter Fifteen, summarizing the historical causes of the early success of Christianity as follows: "(1) The inflexible, and, if we may use the expression, the intolerant zeal of the Christians, derived, it is true, from the Jewish religion, but purified from the narrow and unsocial spirit which, instead of inviting, had deterred the Gentiles from embracing the law of Moses. (2) The doctrine of a future life, improved by every additional circumstance which could give weight and efficacy to that important truth. (3) The miraculous powers ascribed to the primitive church. (4) The pure and austere morals of the Christians. (5) The union and discipline of the Christian republic, which gradually formed an independent and increasing state in the heart of the Roman empire

[For Edict of Milan read Constantine announcing toleration of Christianity. The Edict of Milan gave Christianity a legal status, but did not make Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire; this took place under Emperor Theodosius I in 380 AD.]

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Disagree. Have you both conveniently forgotten about bloody persecution of early Christianity? People were risking lives to practice their religion. 300 years is hardly quick for any religion to establish itself. Constantine stopped persecution of all cults, not just Christanity. The fact that he was the first emperor to convert gave Christanity the final impetus in becoming officially accepted.
It's true that adopting one official religion promoted stability in the empire. But Christianity was chosen because it was already relatively widespread and popular, a position it had achieved despite the state not because of it.
wikipedia:

[For Edict of Milan read Constantine announcing toleration of Christianity. The Edict of Milan gave Christianity a legal status, but did not make Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire; this took place under Emperor Theodosius I in 380 AD.]

So you are agreeing it was given PR to quell rebellion?

Just like it was sprinkled with supernatural things to make it attractive and aspirational

[Twosugars]

The impression I got from yours and TS's posts was that Christianity was cooked-up by the Empire from the start. I disagree.
It was only adopted by the Empire after it had grown organically and became impossible to eradicate.

Anyways, what rebellion? Jewish rebellion? You know very well that from the start majority of Jews never accepted Jesus as messiah, they were happy to be rid of him.