[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Yeah that does suck. But no-one alive is owed anything, descendants of slaves have no disadvantages compared to descendants of non-slaves.

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

There's plenty of debate to be had about what the solutions to these disadvantages are, but trying to argue that it doesn't exist is an untenable position.

Whether or not it's directly about being "descended from slaves" is another issue, of course many BAME people don't have slavery in their family tree, but they're subject to the same discriminations that are rooted in the same things.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

Again it's probably more of a class thing. A "white trash" name like ... Krystal Tiffany Candice would get less call-backs than a "black posh" sounding name like Solomon Anthony Gabriel.

If name-response studies mainly used names like Precious and Shoniqua, of course the results are gonna be skewed.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Again it's probably more of a class thing. A "white trash" name like ... Krystal Tiffany Candice would get less call-backs than a "black posh" sounding name like Solomon Anthony Gabriel.



If name-response studies mainly used names like Precious and Shoniqua, of course the results are gonna be skewed.

There are huge and unavoidable overlaps between race and class, though... Yes you can point out that class discrimination exists, and that a lot of BAME discrimination is in fact class discrimination, but then you're left with the question of why such a large number of people in the classes discriminated against are BAME. It's all part of the same cycle.

Its obviously the same somewhere like Los Angeles. Yes, a lot of gang activity, crime and violence is centred around poor communities that are comprised mainly of ethnic minorities. You still have to ask the question... WHY are these poor communities full of ethnic minorities. You'll always end up at the same answer. History, slavery, colonialism, empire.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This simply isn't true though. It has been proven time and time again that BAME people and - especially - people with "foreign sounding names" are at a measurable disadvantage in all sorts of areas, from employment, to likelihood of loan approval, and so on. Some of that bias is conscious, a LOT of it is subconscious, but it's there and has been statistically observed and verified.

There's plenty of debate to be had about what the solutions to these disadvantages are, but trying to argue that it doesn't exist is an untenable position.

Whether or not it's directly about being "descended from slaves" is another issue, of course many BAME people don't have slavery in their family tree, but they're subject to the same discriminations that are rooted in the same things.

I had the piss ripped out of me at school. They used to sieg heil at me, amongst other things, and try to rhyme insulting stuff with my surname. Same as a girl who's surname was Steptoe. Her life was a misery.... Kids are cruel.

I've worked with a huge number of highly qualified people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. So clearly not all black and brown people are being discriminated against.

Also, the slave trade was a 'trade'. White people didn't go into Africa and gather people, they traded stuff with other black people and Arabs. It was ****ed up.... but it was long before any of us were born.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

I had the piss ripped out of me at school. They used to sieg heil at me, amongst other things, and try to rhyme insulting stuff with my surname. Same as a girl who's surname was Steptoe. Her life was a misery.... Kids are cruel.

I've worked with a huge number of highly qualified people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. So clearly not all black and brown people are being discriminated against.

Also, the slave trade was a 'trade'. White people didn't go into Africa and gather people, they traded stuff with other black people and Arabs. It was ****ed up.... but it was long before any of us were born.

Well the Roman Catholic church divided the world up in the 15th century and gave Portugal West Africa and all it's trade as they conquered it. There was even a papal decree about reducing populations and keeping the people in perpetual slavery, so it's not true to say white people didn't go in. Africans themselves obviously played their part, but that last bit is definitely misleading.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Well the Roman Catholic church divided the world up in the 15th century and gave Portugal West Africa and all it's trade as they conquered it. There was even a papal decree about reducing populations and keeping the people in perpetual slavery, so it's not true to say white people didn't go in. Africans themselves obviously played their part, but that last bit is definitely misleading.

I don't see the Portuguese continually beating themselves up about it.

Africans and Arabs played a big part.

Before we start to go round in circles, I'm done talking to you on this thread.