[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Why are you saying this like it's a cemented FACT , as we were saying alot of these youngsters are still developing physically and emotionally . Their brains are still developing for goodness sake .

Plus gender dysphoria is linked with depression , and other conditions. And as i already said some of these teens are likely autistic or have other conditions .

And how can you deny that someone growing up feeling extremely unhappy in their skin & body , and feeling like another gender is not linked with some form of psychological situation?.

As i keep saying we need to stop stigmatising mental health .

We’re not talking about kids and teenagers under 18. I agree that people that age are way too ‘developing’ to make a life-altering choice if that ilk and I’ve said that 1002 times already. Between me and Oliver we’re discussing transsexualism in a broader scope (as it pertains to adults) and I’m trying to shift him from this cemented, backwards view he seems to have of transsexuality invariably being a mental illness.

Gender-dysphoria, which I’ve never doubted is a serious mental health concern, is not synonymous with just being transgender (which, again, I’ve said).

Let’s try and go off what I’ve actually said for the purpose of these arguments.

[Redway]

I was actually feeling a little somehow about not being properly pro.-trans in the way that someone who was actually part of that community would be but compared to some people on this thread (and I’m not necessarily trying to victimise you per-se, GoldHeart) I’m actually not that prejudiced. At least I’m not the one desperate to pathologise trans. folk by any means necessary, as if I was getting paid for it. When it comes to stuff like this I just say what I know.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I don't have much time for Demi ,she was clinging onto the whole 'non binary' thing as a trend. And surprise surprise now gone back to "she her" pronouns .

She also thought by cutting her hair ,it was something revolutionary . When plenty of women have short hair. And how she doesn't feel like wearing makeup on some days etc . I don't understand how that makes someone non binary ...but ok .

Plenty of women aren't always ultra feminine all the time .

Well I'm confused.

Is Demi Lovato Non-Binary or not?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well I'm confused.

Is Demi Lovato Non-Binary or not?

Put inside Twitter:
Is Demi Lovato Non-Binary or not


https://twitter.com/krismacattack/st...45212390653957


Twitter thanked me,
for your words Mock

You have helped their Searching data.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

Put inside Twitter:
Is Demi Lovato Non-Binary or not


https://twitter.com/krismacattack/st...45212390653957


Twitter thanked me,
for your words Mock

You have helped their Searching data.

And they're welcome.

[Mystic Mock]

And personally speaking I feel like debates with different opinions are a good thing, otherwise it's not really much of a debate.

These things shouldn't get too personal imo, obviously I understand it's different if you fit the demographic that's being discussed.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well I'm confused.

Is Demi Lovato Non-Binary or not?

No-one's non-binary, it's not a valid thing to "be" .

Originally Posted by Redway

and I’m trying to shift him from this cemented, backwards view he seems to have of transsexuality invariably being a mental illness.

Gender-dysphoria, which I’ve never doubted is a serious mental health concern, is not synonymous with just being transgender (which, again, I’ve said).

I never said that being trans-identifying is of itself a mental illness, but it's a symptom of mental illness.

Someone who wants to "transition", who doesn't have gender dysphoria, must surely have other forms of mental ill-health. Likely scars from childhood abuse, as shown in link I posted upthread. Or more likely autism, as shown by various studies which demonstrate an overlap between ASD and trans-identification.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Oh I agree that Transphobia is wrong, and something that hopefully will evaporate over time.

I just don't want people on here falling out with each other over these topics.

Unfortunately there's alot of damaging stuff out there that gets a platform ,which seems to be making the community look bad.

idiots with huge prosthetic knockers calling themselves "trans" . When really it's some freak living out his fetish in Canada in a school of all places .

Or angry activists doxxing JK Rowling's address ,and sending her hate . It's not helping anything.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No-one's non-binary, it's not a valid thing to "be" .

I never said that being trans-identifying is of itself a mental illness, but it's a symptom of mental illness.

Someone who wants to "transition", who doesn't have gender dysphoria, must surely have other forms of mental ill-health. Likely scars from childhood abuse, as shown in link I posted upthread. Or more likely autism, as shown by various studies which demonstrate an overlap between ASD and trans-identification.

That, on the other hand, something I can 100% side on.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Unfortunately there's alot of damaging stuff out there that gets a platform ,which seems to be making the community look bad.

idiots with huge prosthetic knockers calling themselves "trans" . When really it's some freak living out his fetish in Canada in a school of all places .

Or angry activists doxxing JK Rowling's address ,and sending her hate . It's not helping anything.

And in the real world, violent hate crimes against trans people have skyrocketed over the past couple of years, not just mean words on Twitter, actual physical violence purely because of who they are, people like you seem to not acknowledge the serious knock on effect the rise of the anti-trans movement has had on real life trans people just trying to live their lives.

And the idiot with the prosthetic turned out to have nothing to do with being trans, he was a disgruntled man making a point about the different standards between discipline for men and women, but shock horror, the anti-trans folk jumped on it without a care in the world and used it for their own agenda.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

And in the real world, violent hate crimes against trans people have skyrocketed over the past couple of years, not just mean words on Twitter, actual physical violence purely because of who they are, people like you seem to not acknowledge the serious knock on effect the rise of the anti-trans movement has had on real life trans people just trying to live their lives.

And the idiot with the prosthetic turned out to have nothing to do with being trans, he was a disgruntled man making a point about the different standards between discipline for men and women, but shock horror, the anti-trans folk jumped on it without a care in the world and used it for their own agenda.

Where have you gotten your figures for these hate crimes against trans people? I haven't seen a single article or read a single news story about that.

As for your second point, that actually proves what most of us "terfs" have been saying all along, people will take this loophole and exploit it, I mean that's literally what we've been saying all along. I don't for a second believe for example that these men who have identified as women to get into female prisons and sexually assault women are genuine transwomen, they're men who saw this lovely loophole and exploited it to get easy access to vulnerable women.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Where have you gotten your figures for these hate crimes against trans people? I haven't seen a single article or read a single news story about that.

As for your second point, that actually proves what most of us "terfs" have been saying all along, people will take this loophole and exploit it, I mean that's literally what we've been saying all along. I don't for a second believe for example that these men who have identified as women to get into female prisons and sexually assault women are genuine transwomen, they're men who saw this lovely loophole and exploited it to get easy access to vulnerable women.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/10/0...rnment-report/

Includes the report from the home office that hate crimes against trans people have gone up by over 50%

That incident proves nothing of the sort except the anti-trans movement will make anything negative about trans people, it had literally nothing to do with trans people but the movement chose to make it about them

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/10/0...rnment-report/

Includes the report from the home office that hate crimes against trans people have gone up by over 50%

That incident proves nothing of the sort except the anti-trans movement will make anything negative about trans people, it had literally nothing to do with trans people but the movement chose to make it about them

A lot of these "hate crimes" recorded are tweets reported stating that biological sex is real.... Still haven't seen a single actual news story of trans people being attacked etc, seen a lot of women being attacked and harassed for their views on biology though

That incident absolutely proves that it's more important to validate mens feelings over women and childrens safety & dignity

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

A lot of these "hate crimes" recorded are tweets reported stating that biological sex is real.... Still haven't seen a single actual news story of trans people being attacked etc, seen a lot of women being attacked and harassed for their views on biology though

That incident absolutely proves that it's more important to validate mens feelings over women and childrens safety & dignity

I mean, when the media is pretty much controlled by right wing conservatives you’re pretty much certain to not see reports of trans people being attacked splashed on the covers are you? There was however a story earlier this year about a trans guy who was put in hospital in Dublin I think, after him and his friends were attacked at a pride event, the denial of violence against trans people is disturbing tbh but not at surprising, might be a case of blissful ignorance I think

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I mean, when the media is pretty much controlled by right wing conservatives you’re pretty much certain to not see reports of trans people being attacked splashed on the covers are you? There was however a story earlier this year about a trans guy who was put in hospital in Dublin I think, after him and his friends were attacked at a pride event, the denial of violence against trans people is disturbing tbh but not at surprising, might be a case of blissful ignorance I think

So you know of one "attack"?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I mean, when the media is pretty much controlled by right wing conservatives you’re pretty much certain to not see reports of trans people being attacked splashed on the covers are you? There was however a story earlier this year about a trans guy who was put in hospital in Dublin I think, after him and his friends were attacked at a pride event, the denial of violence against trans people is disturbing tbh but not at surprising, might be a case of blissful ignorance I think

WTF??? Are you seriously trying to claim that The mainstream media is about as left as you can get ffs (honestly the media should be neither and should be impartial but it isn't)

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I mean, when the media is pretty much controlled by right wing conservatives you’re pretty much certain to not see reports of trans people being attacked splashed on the covers are you? There was however a story earlier this year about a trans guy who was put in hospital in Dublin I think, after him and his friends were attacked at a pride event, the denial of violence against trans people is disturbing tbh but not at surprising, might be a case of blissful ignorance I think

Rise in hate crime reporting: 'Verbal and physical abuse happens daily' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-63170188

Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370

At least try and find relevant links that might prove a point.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

WTF??? Are you seriously trying to claim that The mainstream media is about as left as you can get ffs (honestly the media should be neither and should be impartial but it isn't)

Oh come on now, you know that’s just false

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Oh come on now, you know that’s just false

Twitter, Facebook, Whatsapp, INsta, the BBC, ITV, YOutube?

all right wing?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Rise in hate crime reporting: 'Verbal and physical abuse happens daily' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-63170188

Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370

At least try and find relevant links that might prove a point.

Again a lot of these hate crimes are people reporting tweets, off the top of my head I can think of 4 news stories where police arrested people for "offensive tweets" and had to drop it because the people actually hadn't broken any laws or said anything hateful/threatening etc

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-47005937

https://www.faircop.org.uk/case-stud...keen-minshull/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Oh come on now, you know that’s just false

I swear this feels like the Twilight Zone sometimes, so the BBC for example who until very recently were "champions" of Stonewall* are right wing are they?

*Until that Nolan investigation exposed the harmful influence and biased nature of this on what is supposed to be objective journalism

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Again a lot of these hate crimes are people reporting tweets, off the top of my head I can think of 4 news stories where police arrested people for "offensive tweets" and had to drop it because the people actually hadn't broken any laws are said anything hateful/threatening etc

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-47005937

https://www.faircop.org.uk/case-stud...keen-minshull/

There’s no doubt about the Twitter stuff but at the end of the day LGBT people are often victimised and assaulted so when it comes to that part of the argument per-se I’m willing to hear Liam out. Especially when some of the information in the links I posted do actually reference serious assaults on trans. people. I don’t think that much can be denied.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Redway

Rise in hate crime reporting: 'Verbal and physical abuse happens daily' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-63170188

Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370

At least try and find relevant links that might prove a point.

You could put hundreds of trans people who have been physically attacked for being trans in front of transphobes and they still wouldn’t accept or believe it, I don’t even know why I’m continuing to proceed with the discussion tbh because it goes around in constant circles on here

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

That, on the other hand, something I can 100% side on.

In that case, you're half way toward Stopped Clock Status and it ain't even lunchtime

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You could put hundreds of trans people who have been physically attacked for being trans in front of transphobes and they still wouldn’t accept or believe it

Maybe you could, but you haven't... tweets aren't violence.