[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Genuine trans women were using those spaces without any issues from 2010. Only when the anti-trans movement started suggesting excuses for predators to use, have any problems arisen.

That was not sarcasm, it was a clear observation based on what you'd written. I'd never say "if women had an ounce of respect, they should do x, y, or z."

I'd welcome trans women in males spaces, because all they want to do is get changed or use the toilets, but I'm well aware that most men wouldn't be as tolerant towards "chicks with dicks," especially with the constant screaming about them all being predators.

There's also been a rise in predators taking advantage of the self ID and you know this yet you continue to ignore it.

Even when Primark thoughtlessly introduced ' mixed changing rooms ' , surprise surprise men were over stepping the line ,and made a woman cry as they deliberately walked in on her changing. And that's just men in general.

And Why oh why is there so many suddenly identifying as " women" the moment they commit a crime, you've seen the articles. A wig and makeup does not change science instantly.

And womens prisons should never have biological men in there .

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

There's also been a rise in predators taking advantage of the self ID and you know this yet you continue to ignore it.

Even when Primark thoughtlessly introduced ' mixed changing rooms ' , surprise surprise men were over stepping the line ,and made a woman cry as they deliberately walked in on her changing. And that's just men in general.

And Why oh why is there so many suddenly identifying as " women" the moment they commit a crime, you've seen the articles. A wig and makeup does not change science instantly.

And womens prisons should never have biological men in there .

That's quite the laundry list.

Predators have started taking advantage of these things, precisely because these excuses have been pushed into public consciousness by those who are anti-trans.

Again, the rise in predators talking advantage of self ID, is directly correlated to the anti-trans movement telling people that self ID was a way to skirt the system.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

That's quite the laundry list.

Predators have started taking advantage of these things, precisely because these excuses have been pushed into public consciousness by those who are anti-trans.

Again, the rise in predators talking advantage of self ID, is directly correlated to the anti-trans movement telling people that self ID was a way to skirt the system.

Ok no worries , silly me for showing concern for some weirdos gaining access to women's spaces, must be my imagination . I guess I should just ' shut up ' as David Tennant knows best, maybe he identifies as a woman aswell.

It's funny how you talk about 'anti trans' whilst ignoring the utter contempt people seem to have for a woman or any women who dares speak their mind on this topic.
The hate JK Rowling has been getting is alarming to say
the least .

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Ok no worries , silly me for showing concern for some weirdos gaining access to women's spaces, must be my imagination . I guess I should just ' shut up ' as David Tennant knows best, maybe he identifies as a woman aswell.

It's funny how you talk about 'anti trans' whilst ignoring the utter contempt people seem to have for a woman or any women who dares speak their mind on this topic.
The hate JK Rowling has been getting is alarming to say
the least .

Why are you getting angry about things I haven't said to you?

You're just building up straw man after straw man. I haven't said you should shut up, I haven't said you're imagining anything, and I certainly haven't mentioned David Tennant.

If you have grievances with trans people, then that's on you to deal with however you choose, but don't bring them up against me to try and rally the cause, because this is when I will start calling you out for imagining things.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

That's quite the laundry list.

Predators have started taking advantage of these things, precisely because these excuses have been pushed into public consciousness by those who are anti-trans.

Again, the rise in predators talking advantage of self ID, is directly correlated to the anti-trans movement telling people that self ID was a way to skirt the system.

Neh that's an extremely weak argument even if assumed to be true; you're straight up admitting that it can be taken advantage of, just disclaiming it with the idea that people "only know that" because it was highlighted by people concerned at the possibility?

Your argument, then, hinges on the idea that said predators "would never have noticed" and so it wouldn't have been a problem which is at best shaky. Logically, of course it would still have "been noticed" and propagated. Best case scenario is that it might have taken a little longer.

And that's assuming full accuracy of what you're saying, I think there's a strong case to be made that the rise of "anti trans" has gone hand in hand with unrelated, self-driven trans awareness that has nothing at all to do with any anti-trans movement and is more rooted in the identity-politics that defines and is interwoven with late millenial/early genZ sociology.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Neh that's an extremely weak argument even if assumed to be true; you're straight up admitting that it can be taken advantage of, just disclaiming it with the idea that people "only know that" because it was highlighted by people concerned at the possibility?

Your argument, then, hinges on the idea that said predators "would never have noticed" and so it wouldn't have been a problem which is at best shaky. Logically, of course it would still have "been noticed" and propagated. Best case scenario is that it might have taken a little longer.

And that's assuming full accuracy of what you're saying, I think there's a strong case to be made that the rise of "anti trans" has gone hand in hand with unrelated, self-driven trans awareness that has nothing at all to do with any anti-trans movement and is more rooted in the identity-politics that defines and is interwoven with late millenial/early genZ sociology.

I'm not making any argument, as I have no interest in this discussion on here. I'm just pointing to the facts of the timeline. If it's true, then it's not weak. By definition.

Dude, honestly, you're the only person on here that I would have had this discussion with in a serious manner, but it's not something I'm interested in anymore. It always devolves. I've had folks who I had long standing relationships with, saying I've never been an ally to women about anything because of this topic, and let's also not forget your Saturday morning love letters to me about my signature (honestly no hard feelings whatsoever). It's always only ever one misplaced sentence (from either side) away from descending into full on stupidity, and so there's just no point.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm not making any argument, as I have no interest in this discussion on here. I'm just pointing to the facts of the timeline. If it's true, then it's not weak. By definition.

Dude, honestly, you're the only person on here that I would have had this discussion with in a serious manner, but it's not something I'm interested in anymore. It always devolves. I've had folks who I had long standing relationships with, saying I've never been an ally to women about anything because of this topic, and let's also not forget your Saturday morning love letters to me about my signature (honestly no hard feelings whatsoever). It's always only ever one misplaced sentence (from either side) away from descending into full on stupidity, and so there's just no point.

I just wanted to respond to this as I didnt on the other thread, the idea that self ID would not have been taken advantage of unless it had been pointed out is pretty out there..... and you are right trans women have been using bathrooms for years with no issue but then self ID created a literal explosion of band wagon jumpers some actual trans but the majority just experimenting or using it as an opportunity whether that be financially in sport or as a predator or just because of plain old mysogny

Dude, honestly, you're the only person on here that I would have had this discussion with in a serious manner,

I find this part of your post astonishing, you would discuss an issue that affects women only with another male? is that you Andrew Tate?

Like the women of TiBB are not worthy...I guess

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I just wanted to respond to this as I didnt on the other thread, the idea that self ID would not have been taken advantage of unless it had been pointed out is pretty out there..... and you are right trans women have been using bathrooms for year with no issue but then self ID created a literal explosion of band wagon jumpers some actual trans but the majority just experimenting or using it as an opportunity whether that be financially in sport or as a predator or just because of plain old mysogny

Dude, honestly, you're the only person on here that I would have had this discussion with in a serious manner,

I find this part of your post astonishing, you would discuss an issue that affects women only with another male? is that you Andrew Tate?

Like the women of TiBB are not worthy...I guess

Herein lies both the problem and the reason. Monsieur Tate agrees with you on this topic, not me.

Has nothing to do with SB being male, it is about where he is coming from in the discussion. SB and I have had plenty of disagreements and differences, but I genuinely believe he's coming at it from an honest place, that isn't about simply dressing up excuses for bigotry.

I've seen numerous people insisting it's about x or y, but then love a bit of support for Parker and her merry band of Nazi's. I've seen numerous people pretend they just want to protect the integrity of women's sport, but don't half love some Gervais "SHE'S GOT A COCK"" screeching routines, and who want to girl-baws JK for going way past "concern for the safety of women" long, long ago, and is more concentrated on putting trans people in danger these days.

Here's my final thought.

I got an infraction a while back for saying that anyone who doesn't see that gaza is genocide, must either be ignorant or thick. I got it for insulting members, despite the fact it isn't either about anyone personally and doesn't mention anyone specifically.

We have a trans person (maybe persons) who use this forum, but yet people just have carte blanche to call trans people any names they want, at any time, and without any repercussions whatsoever.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Herein lies both the problem and the reason. Monsieur Tate agrees with you on this topic, not me.

Has nothing to do with SB being male, it is about where he is coming from in the discussion. SB and I have had plenty of disagreements and differences, but I genuinely believe he's coming at it from an honest place, that isn't about simply dressing up excuses for bigotry.

I've seen numerous people insisting it's about x or y, but then love a bit of support for Parker and her merry band of Nazi's. I've seen numerous people pretend they just want to protect the integrity of women's sport, but don't half love some Gervais "SHE'S GOT A COCK"" screeching routines, and who want to girl-baws JK for going way past "concern for the safety of women" long, long ago, and is more concentrated on putting trans people in danger these days.

Here's my final thought.

I got an infraction a while back for saying that anyone who doesn't see that gaza is genocide, must either be ignorant or thick. I got it for insulting members, despite the fact it isn't either about anyone personally and doesn't mention anyone specifically.

We have a trans person (maybe persons) who use this forum, but yet people just have carte blanche to call trans people any names they want, at any time, and without any repercussions whatsoever.

so you think I am coming from a place of bigotry as least we know where we both stand now, and herein lies the problem women can't stand up for themselves any more, they are either called Karens or bigots, maybe you could tell me the names trans people have been called on the forum by me? the fact that you think SB can say the same thing as I say but he is coming from an honest (manly) place but I am a bigot, frankly I dont wish to discuss this with you any further either tbh

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm not making any argument, as I have no interest in this discussion on here. I'm just pointing to the facts of the timeline. If it's true, then it's not weak. By definition.

Dude, honestly, you're the only person on here that I would have had this discussion with in a serious manner, but it's not something I'm interested in anymore. It always devolves. I've had folks who I had long standing relationships with, saying I've never been an ally to women about anything because of this topic, and let's also not forget your Saturday morning love letters to me about my signature (honestly no hard feelings whatsoever). It's always only ever one misplaced sentence (from either side) away from descending into full on stupidity, and so there's just no point.

It's just a very touchy subject I'm afraid Slim Reaper.

I feel like whatever your opinion is on this topic, there is bound to be a group of people not like you for saying it.

Personally when it comes to Dodds, I would've liked her to have stated her opinion more clearly, rather than trying to be evasive to the question.

Especially as she's a woman and this topic relates to women spaces, she'll have a more definitive opinion in either direction than she's giving at the moment, she feels dishonest with her answer imo.

I personally would've been fine with her answer regardless of which side that she picked, I just wished that she would say.