[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Of course there is still racism and sexism in the world, just like homophobia, but look how far we have come so far with the fighting. And naturally, given the past, we can safely say that with continued fighting, acceptance of minorities will grow. Not sure about you but for me, it's worth the fight.

''Life is short, enjoy it'' is not really an argument so much as it is a last ditch attempt to salvage something that may have once resembled an argument. I am sure gay people don't spend there entire lives fighting. There are twenty four hours in a day. They don't spend it all marching. Just like you don't spend it all on an internet forum talking to strangers.

That last line made me lol....

Sure have enjoyed debating with you.. I'm sure we will do it again someday!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

As far as judging, I dont agree! I think male that judge lesbians, for their sexuality, judge Homosexuals, the same. Of course they are still more enclined to the gay female, visually! But like someone else said, thats just because they see the really attractive female lesbians on videos. If they were judging by whats real (me included), they would definitely feel diferently.

but they would still look down on both, in everyday life situations. Without them doing it!

Two butch lesbians in dungarees and Doc Martins in real life are slightly different to hot models in porn

[Lee.]

I know I said I wasn't going to say any more on the subject, but I was thinking earlier and came up with quite a good example to back up my argument that straight men who feel uncomfortable seeing men together, don't necessarily find it wrong and aren't therefore homophobic... I cringe when i think of very old people/my mum/my neighbours having sex ; I know it's not wrong for them to be doing it but still I tend not to like thinking about it. Do you know where I am coming from??

[InOne]

Originally Posted by happyland

I know I said I wasn't going to say any more on the subject, but I was thinking earlier and came up with quite a good example to back up my argument that straight men who feel uncomfortable seeing men together, don't necessarily find it wrong and aren't therefore homophobic... I cringe when i think of very old people/my mum/my neighbours having sex ; I know it's not wrong for them to be doing it but still I tend not to like thinking about it. Do you know where I am coming from??

Yes, dear.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yes, dear.

I'm glad sweetie.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm glad sweetie.

You are a good debater! Was always going to be a tricky topic lol

[*mazedsalv**]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I never come across homophobia. In what form does the op mean? 1-5% of the UK is classed as homosexual so it must be few and far between. (although because of the bias towards tv entertainment it seems like higher)

Im positive that in the past 4 years, the % has gone from about 5% to about 10%(Ive heard this somehwere), which is actually more believable, judghing by TV shows, films, documentary, and reality, it seems that being gay is more common now... but im not sure if 10% is completely correct... thats 1 in 10 people!

However the % of hompphobic people have halved, I guess people will be less homophobic if there are more gay people as there will be less of a minority.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by InOne

You are a good debater! Was always going to be a tricky topic lol

Why thank you... I think it's a topic with no proper answer. Live and let live though and all that shennanigans!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by happyland

Why thank you... I think it's a topic with no proper answer. Live and let live though and all that shennanigans!

Indeed! But good points made by all. Everyone see's everything different really, which is the good thing about debate.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Indeed! But good points made by all. Everyone see's everything different really, which is the good thing about debate.

Yip.. if we all saw things the same, life would be dull and there would be no such thing as debate!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by *mazedsalv**

Im positive that in the past 4 years, the % has gone from about 5% to about 10%(Ive heard this somehwere), which is actually more believable, judghing by TV shows, films, documentary, and reality, it seems that being gay is more common now... but im not sure if 10% is completely correct... thats 1 in 10 people!

However the % of hompphobic people have halved, I guess people will be less homophobic if there are more gay people as there will be less of a minority.

I do not think you are correct.

[Stu]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oc...ck-victim-dies

Homophobic crimes have increased by almost 14%, an extra 39 offences, since April in the Metropolitan police area, and there has also been an increase nationally.

Homophobic attacks have already claimed two lives in London in the past year. Gerry Edwards, 59, was stabbed to death at his flat in Bromley, south-east London, in March. His long-term partner also suffered stab wounds.

In November 2008, David Cooper, 28, was beaten to death at his flat in Woolwich, south-east London. He had been drinking in Soho the night before his murder.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Stu

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oc...ck-victim-dies

But is that just an increase in people reporting hc.?

and also putting a statistic across and then underneath 2 very serious incidents tends to suggest that they are the norm, which may be misleading.

I wonder what "homophobic crime" entails, are most verbal or are most physical etc..?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

putting a statistic across and then underneath 2 very serious incidents tends to suggest that they are the norm, which may be misleading.

No it would not. It would only suggest it as the norm to idiots who cannot read and cannot understand context. You seem to be the only one making that suggestion. It's funny how defensive you reacted to the article when it was not directed at anybody and was merely posted to prove the seriousness and severity of some homophobic attacks that still occur in this day and age, not spark a debate.

[BB_Eye]

It's funny because the ancient Greeks had a reputation for being very "gay-friendly", but ancient Greece was also the origin of sodomy laws, which owed a lot to the influence of Plato and Aristotle. Slaves in the ancient world were forced to abide by different laws than aristocrats. As we know, slave culture was the origin of Judaeo-Christian religion, which, being egalitarian in nature, saught to apply to everyone the laws which governed the actions of slaves and which excluded them from the privileged, sexually promiscuous lifestyle enjoyed by the chosen few... I would imagine this had a lot to do with the lack of democracy in the middle ages.

Personally, I think the pederasty (which is embodied in the dominant older male and subissive youngster) that defined the culture of ancient Greece and the revival of classical sensibilities during the Italian Renaissance (which, although a golden age for the arts and sciences, was a notoriously tyrranical era for both Italian politics and the Catholic Church) needs to be disassociated from homosexuality. I find this Ancient Greek model carries with it sinister overtones of child abuse and brings to mind notorious figures such as the artist Caravaggio who was both a murderer and a paedophile who peddled homoerotic images of young boys to church officials.

With all of this in mind and Christians, Muslims, working class communities and most cultures with a history of being oppressed by European colonialists, it's easier to understand why homosexuality is so badly misinterpreted.