[InOne]

Originally Posted by Shasown

A good working example of the use of capital punishment as a deterrent to murder would be to look at the United States of America, Several states have the death penalty while other states dont. The murder rate in states that do not have the death penalty is consistently lower than in states with the death penalty. The South, which carries out over 80% of the executions in the U. S., has the highest murder rate of the four regions. The obvious conclusion is then, it is no deterrent.

There is also an effect that doesnt gain much publicity, if someone was on the jury where the death penalty could be applied, most people would be more reluctant to convict knowing that once the person was dead, they couldnt later be made undead if further evidence came to light that proved their innocence, or simply called to question their conviction. Consequently you have the potential for real criminals to actually be found not guilty, in cases where the balance of evidence would have found them convicted if the punishment was a term of imprisonment.

There are also arguements against it on moral grounds, its retribution albeit state authorised.

You make very good points and really, in the UK the death penatly would never work. It does not stop people from murdering, raping, commting all sorts of crimes. You get 'mob britain' thinking that that is the answer, when really it is not. Look at how many people got outraged at the Peter 'Baby P' case, they don't think how he would have turned out at all. Imagine if he'd have lived and been the same as Barker anyway??? We known that the mass of the British public is stupid, they will sap anything in. Even if rehab is not the way, we can look for the early warning signs in paedophiles and that, some might say it's all bull**** but they are thinking of the ONE child. Right, they all mourn over Maddie right, but Shannon Matthews, yeah it was a fake, but she was fed anti-depressants and all sorts. Nobody thinks of the psychological damage done to her, they just see it as a solved case. The media is fickle and it higlights unsolvable cases when they really should be concentrating on the kids that might have a chance.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by InOne

You make very good points and really, in the UK the death penatly would never work. It does not stop people from murdering, raping, commting all sorts of crimes. You get 'mob britain' thinking that that is the answer, when really it is not. Look at how many people got outraged at the Peter 'Baby P' case, they don't think how he would have turned out at all. Imagine if he'd have lived and been the same as Barker anyway??? We known that the mass of the British public is stupid, they will sap anything in. Even if rehab is not the way, we can look for the early warning signs in paedophiles and that, some might say it's all bull**** but they are thinking of the ONE child. Right, they all mourn over Maddie right, but Shannon Matthews, yeah it was a fake, but she was fed anti-depressants and all sorts. Nobody thinks of the psychological damage done to her, they just see it as a solved case. The media is fickle and it higlights unsolvable cases when they really should be concentrating on the kids that might have a chance.

Some valid points there, but just wait till people read todays NOTW, according to their headlines Venables may not be tried for the alleged offences he has had his licence removed for. Wait for the howling of the mob there. If they bother to read the story, no decision has yet been made, some advisors are pushing for it to be dealt with by the parole board, a bit naughty really coz it then automatically assumes he has committed the new offences. In which case he can appeal to Europe again. poor old Jack Straw.

Good old Labour, tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Some valid points there, but just wait till people read todays NOTW, according to their headlines Venables may not be tried for the alleged offences he has had his licence removed for. Wait for the howling of the mob there. If they bother to read the story, no decision has yet been made, some advisors are pushing for it to be dealt with by the parole board, a bit naughty really coz it then automatically assumes he has committed the new offences. In which case he can appeal to Europe again. poor old Jack Straw.

Good old Labour, tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.

I guess you can only go on people really and what they buy and buy into. Even if the headline is false they still love stuff like 'Paedo found and jalied for 5 years'. It satisfies their simple minds until the next Maddie or Baby P comes along.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by InOne

I guess you can only go on people really and what they buy and buy into. Even if the headline is false they still love stuff like 'Paedo found and jalied for 5 years'. It satisfies their simple minds until the next Maddie or Baby P comes along.

Yep I also like the way people hark back to the good old days, in reality it has always happened, just nowadays, with 24 hour news, instant communications and people being more aware of the support available and then receiving that support, its more common for people to open up and talk about it. Plus it gets a wider audience.

The thing to remember though newspaper editors need to fill papers, news program producers need to fill the time slots they have for the programs, consequently when no fresh news is happening they will rework the same information just phrasing it a different way and make the story bigger.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Yep I also like the way people hark back to the good old days, in reality it has always happened, just nowadays, with 24 hour news, instant communications and people being more aware of the support available and then receiving that support, its more common for people to open up and talk about it. Plus it gets a wider audience.

The thing to remember though newspaper editors need to fill papers, news program producers need to fill the time slots they have for the programs, consequently when no fresh news is happening they will rework the same information just phrasing it a different way and make the story bigger.

Yep I mean, if you look back on it, it was worse. You'd never get another serial killer these days. They'd be caught pretty quick. We've been hardened to such acts with The Yorkshire Ripper and The Moors Murders, we know what it's all about. It shocks me that people get outraged at such acts these days, as if this is the only one that has ever happened.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yep I mean, if you look back on it, it was worse. You'd never get another serial killer these days. They'd be caught pretty quick. We've been hardened to such acts with The Yorkshire Ripper and The Moors Murders, we know what it's all about. It shocks me that people get outraged at such acts these days, as if this is the only one that has ever happened.

Nah you still get serial killers, Harold Shipman, convicted of 15 murders in 2000, but there is still still debate over his true total, some reckon it could at least double the number he was actually convicted of.

Then there is Peter Tobin sentenced in 2007 for 3 murders, police actually believe his total is in excess of 20. He apparently lay claim to over 40 victims.

Both excede the Ripper and the Moors Murderers. Then there was Fred and Rosemary West, they were stopped in the late 80's with a total of at least 12.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Nah you still get serial killers, Harold Shipman, convicted of 15 murders in 2000, but there is still still debate over his true total, some reckon it could at least double the number he was actually convicted of.

Then there is Peter Tobin sentenced in 2007 for 3 murders, police actually believe his total is in excess of 20. He apparently lay claim to over 40 victims.

Both excede the Ripper and the Moors Murderers. Then there was Fred and Rosemary West, they were stopped in the late 80's with a total of at least 12.

It always makes me wonder why Psychopathy pretty common yet serial killers are so rare. Cos really, they are quite rare, the extreme violence they commit. Plus the compulsions and everything else. You read 'Without Conscience'???