[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Are you effing serious? Thats EXACTLY what most religious folk do. Selective reading. Truth is you can pick bits out of the bible to justify or condemn anything.

And where does it say in the bible; thou shall molest the choir boys?

Seems you missed my point completely. So I will explain what I mean in detail, albeit this is only my personal opinion. Every single religion has its own belief system and "scriptures". Therefore it is every individual's personal choice to select that religion (or denomination thereof) that jives with their own beliefs, inclinations, moral compass whatever. Therefore a gay person has the same freedom of choice to believe or not believe in whatever a particular religion dictates.

What you don't do is CHOOSE to follow a faith or religion which is quite clearly AGAINST your particular path in life and then bleat and whinge about how it's discriminatory. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone women priests, and just as many that don't. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone gay marriage and just as many that don't. It's not like there's not a custom made religion for everybody since there are reportedly over 38000 denominations that ALL consider themselves Christian, so basically the cherry picking has already been done.

By the way I am not religious at all which is why I didn't get married in a Church, nor did I have my children christened since it would have been meaningless and hypocritical. But just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't respect the right of others to believe what the hell they like.

As regards the molestation of choir boys, I think you'll find that's a given in the Catholic faith in which I was brought up till the age of 16 when I decided I could not believe in the virgin birth or some man in a frock "forgiving" my sins just so long as I spouted a hail mary or two. Like the legal system, the Law is nothing to do with justice, and Religion is often nothing to do with morality.

[monx]

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

[Speedster]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Dave like the rest of us has a right to his opinion

Good point. A I agree whole hartedly, but it's the one thing about the show that had always driven Me insane; people on the show express an opinion and the public crucifies them for it, them someone else says the same thing, more or less and they get away with it.

The question for Me has always been who's right and who's wrong, and who says which is which, I think the show is rife with double standards.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Speedster

Good point. A I agree whole hartedly, but it's the one thing about the show that had always driven Me insane; people on the show express an opinion and the public crucifies them for it, them someone else says the same thing, more or less and they get away with it.

The question for Me has always been who's right and who's wrong, and who says which is which, I think the show is rife with double standards.

No one whatsoever has the right to tell Dave he is wrong in what he believes ,it is so arrogant to think your opinion is more valid than the next persons

[Speedster]

Originally Posted by MrWong

I think a child has a right to be loved.

Whether that's with mum and dad, dad and dad or mum and mum.

Straight parents don't have the monopoly on good parenting you know.

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Speedster

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

You only have to look at the vile Mc Canns to see that !

[Speedster]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

No one whatsoever has the right to tell Dave he is wrong in what he believes ,it is so arrogant to think your opinion is more valid than the next persons

THAT was My point exactly, but just take time to read the comments on here and the C4 BB site and see how judgemental people are about people they don't know and have never and will never meet.

Yes, we all have a right to our opinions, but the arrogance that goes with express those opinions leaves Me cold.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Speedster

THAT was My point exactly, but just take time to read the comments on here and the C4 BB site and see how judgemental people are about people they don't know and have never and will never meet.

Yes, we all have a right to our opinions, but the arrogance that goes with express those opinions leaves Me cold.

I have read them i can sum it up in one word ..... pathetic

[Angus]

Originally Posted by monx

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

I totally agree with you, but there are countless millions who follow a religion and it is, after all, their choice. I choose not to, but I don't make a point of denigrating other people's beliefs, nor do I expect them to compromise their religious beliefs to accommodate my secular ones.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by monx

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

I totally agree with you, but there are countless millions who follow a religion and it is, after all, their choice. I choose not to, but I don't make a point of denigrating other people's beliefs, nor do I expect them to compromise their religious beliefs to accommodate my secular ones.

[Chuckyegg]

Being straight is no more or less natural that being gay - it's just more common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

[MojoNixon]

Originally Posted by Chuckyegg

Being straight isn't natural - it's just very common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

So if you hetero, you are sick? And if you wanna suck and hump someones tailpipe (same gender that is), it is normal? Ok...i did not know i was wrong.

[Chuckyegg]

Originally Posted by MojoNixon

So if you hetero, you are sick? And if you wanna suck and hump someones tailpipe (same gender that is), it is normal? Ok...i did not know i was wrong.

er....what?

Ok, I simplified my previous comment for the hard of learning.

[jimbobster]

Originally Posted by Chuckyegg

Being straight isn't natural - it's just very common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

[Chuckyegg]

Originally Posted by jimbobster

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

A straight couple created me.

I don't think I need advice on what's normal from someone who thinks Adam and Eve were real.

I've blocked you.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jimbobster

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

You believe in Adam and Eve?

[Crimson Dynamo]

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

[jimbobster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

maybe a chemical imbalance in the brain?? who knows but its wierd to me

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

The world is very well populated, infact over populated so being Gay is probably a good thing for the planet!

[Chuckyegg]

Gays, along with religious folk and those unable to concieve are all playing thier part in the population control. It's the same in the animal kingdom. Though admittedly, there are not many Swan Nuns.

[MojoNixon]

Without heteros there would be no nasty mates for em others.

[starry]

Originally Posted by Speedster

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

Nobody said it did. Similarly a homosexual parent doesn't mean a good parent either. But if it is a choice between a 'good' heterosexual couple and a 'good' homosexual couple as a parent then I think the first should get priority.

[Chuckyegg]

I'm glad this discussion has happened. I've been able to stick a whole bunch of ***holes on my ignore list. It was very satisfying. Like when I empty the bins on a Tuesday.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Chuckyegg

I'm glad this discussion has happened. I've been able to stick a whole bunch of ***holes on my ignore list. It was very satisfying. Like when I empty the bins on a Tuesday.

and it also highlights to new members who are the typical hysterical "your just a homophobe" types too

[matt2201]

For anybody who asks "why do gay people follow a religion that says being gay is a sin?", shouldn't you also be asking "why do adulterers follow a religion not only says that adultery is a sin, but where it's also one of the 10 commandments?".