[housemate]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Here is the problem:

Yes, I posted this for fingers and others and my complaint is that this type of behavior is shaming Christianity. The drunken nonsense is the problem.

Fingers and a few others don't care about that but instead are hoping to convince people that the video depicts David faking some disease or injury that has him in a wheelchair in order to 'get money'.
Wrong.
That is not what is happening there. It is not a video of David pretending to be in a wheelchair to get money.

So now what has happened is that Fingers is becoming as guilty as the thing he claims to be against: deception, misrepresentation, fooling people.

I agree that it does shame Christianity (in my opinion)
Surely one of daves little mates (in the vid) could have had a placard stating that Dave was actually able bodied? The chair was obviously used as an advertising slogan for his cause, the honourable thing (if he wasn't presenting himself as disabled) would have been to make this clear to the people he spoke to?
Put it this way, if I encountered a Monk in a wheelchair, the last thought to come to mind would be that he was anything other than a disabled Monk!
The Drunk on the Lord nonsense is surely the same thing? An illusion whose sole purpose is to convince?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by housemate

I agree that it does shame Christianity (in my opinion)
Surely one of daves little mates (in the vid) could have had a placard stating that Dave was actually able bodied? The chair was obviously used as an advertising slogan for his cause, the honourable thing (if he wasn't presenting himself as disabled) would have been to make this clear to the people he spoke to?
Put it this way, if I encountered a Monk in a wheelchair, the last thought to come to mind would be that he was anything other than a disabled Monk!

You have a valid point there - but there is a big difference between lack of insight, stupidity (whatever you want to call it) and out and out dishonest intentions and ripping people off!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You have a valid point there - but there is a big difference between lack of insight, stupidity (whatever you want to call it) and out and out dishonest intentions and ripping people off!

What other conclusion would anyone who saw him make?


it was exploitative and dishonest

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What other conclusion would anyone who saw him make?

it was exploitative and dishonest

Conclusions, assumptions - we keep coming back to that! No actual facts!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Conclusions, assumptions - we keep coming back to that! No actual facts!

he does not have a job

his "minister" moniker is not recognised by any authority (ie it is self proclaimed)

He has no job

he makes his money by exploiting gullible people to donate to him



His whole "ministry" is based on earning him a wage

[Beso]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he does not have a job

his "minister" moniker is not recognised by any authority (ie it is self proclaimed)

He has no job

he makes his money by exploiting gullible people to donate to him



His whole "ministry" is based on earning him a wage

why do you need an authority to recognise what you believe in?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he does not have a job

his "minister" moniker is not recognised by any authority (ie it is self proclaimed)

He has no job

he makes his money by exploiting gullible people to donate to him



His whole "ministry" is based on earning him a wage

Self-proclaimed in not illegal or necessarily immoral! That is how many religions often start!

There you go with your assumptions and conclusions again! If you have any facts, produce them!

I thought not!

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

it was exploitative and dishonest

An excellent point.

People are more likely too empathize with someone who is in a wheelchair: Exploitative

He doesn't need a bloody wheelchair: Dishonest

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

An excellent point.

People are more likely too empathize with someone who is in a wheelchair: Exploitative

He doesn't need a bloody wheelchair: Dishonest

How is it excellent - it isn't based on fact - just supposition!

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

How is it excellent - it isn't based on fact - just supposition!

He is using a wheelchair in the video. FACT. Also he isn't disabled and dosen't need a wheel chair FACT.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You have a valid point there - but there is a big difference between lack of insight, stupidity (whatever you want to call it) and out and out dishonest intentions and ripping people off!

Im absolutly certain that Dave doesn't do this for kicks .. if he was collecting money on the spot or not, he clearly wanted to draw people in to his version of Faith. There isn't an organisation on Earth that survive on fresh air, the people he 'recruits' have to contribute.
Judging from his travel schedule alone (which he has mentioned dozens of times IN the house, I don;t have to assume, its clearly doing very well.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by housemate

I agree that it does shame Christianity (in my opinion)
Surely one of daves little mates (in the vid) could have had a placard stating that Dave was actually able bodied? The chair was obviously used as an advertising slogan for his cause, the honourable thing (if he wasn't presenting himself as disabled) would have been to make this clear to the people he spoke to?
Put it this way, if I encountered a Monk in a wheelchair, the last thought to come to mind would be that he was anything other than a disabled Monk!
The Drunk on the Lord nonsense is surely the same thing? An illusion whose sole purpose is to convince?

I agree. The idea is that Dave was in such drunken ecstasy that he couldn't walk and they needed to push him around in the wheelchair.
They do believe he was temporarily disabled.
I think most people see it and suppose it is some drunk nutters taking the piss.

Either way, the thing here was not collecting donations. They were not asking for money or taking money.
Fingers seems to be doing her best to convince as many as possible he was pretending to be disabled to get donations from people.
They were not.
Someone here even suggested he be reported for defrauding people but in fact they were not taking money from anyone.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I agree. The idea is that Dave was in such drunken ecstasy that he couldn't walk and they needed to push him around in the wheelchair.
They do believe he was temporarily disabled.
I think most people see it and suppose it is some drunk nutters taking the piss.

Either way, the thing here was not collecting donations. They were not asking for money or taking money.
Fingers seems to be doing her best to convince as many as possible he was pretending to be disabled to get donations from people.
They were not.
Someone here even suggested he be reported for defrauding people but in fact they were not taking money from anyone.

Again - good post!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Again - good post!

I'm on a roll with you Wombai lol

*dont worry.. im sure i will infuriate you later but for now we are on the same wavelength i think hehe

Here is the start of a David Wheelchair thing in Guilford:

Youtube video

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I'm on a roll with you Wombai lol

*dont worry.. im sure i will infuriate you later but for now we are on the same wavelength i think hehe

Here is the start of a David Wheelchair thing in Guilford:

Youtube video

We are!

I think the points you made about him being in a wheelchair because he was drunk with god, and therefore, unable to walk properly, made it all make more sense - it was simply a symbolic gesture!

Nothing to do with an intention to take the piss out of disabled people, as some have tried so hard to have us all believe! At worst people could accuse the stunt of being in poor taste - but not the same thing at all!

[Late for the Party]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

We are!

I think the points you made about him being in a wheelchair because he was drunk with god, and therefore, unable to walk properly, made it all make more sense

That dosen't make sense

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Late for the Party

That dosen't make sense

It does! Where does the term 'legless' come from? So drunk you are unable to stand, nevermind walk! It makes perfect sense!