[Angus]

Culture and tradition are what bind people together, give them a sense of pride and loyalty to their country and to their fellow citizens. Britain has a long and varied culture which has been contributed to by generations of immigrants who have come to this country, integrated and enriched our traditions and way of life as their cultures have been assimilated into ours. That does not mean the host nation should be expected to have their way of life superseded by cultures that evolved in different countries under different circumstances and different histories.

Many of the dissenters on this forum are bleating on about "it's their culture" as if that is sufficient reason for the host culture to submit. I have still had not a single FM comment on the cultural activities of some of the immigrants who come here which are not only immoral, but illegal.

How about honour killings, quite common in many middle eastern and asian cultures?
How about underage sex and marriage which we call paedophilia over here? Girls of 11 and 12 are married off in a lot of cultures.
How about polygamy? How about forced arranged marriages?
How about Sati (widow burning)? How about the eating of animals we consider domestic pets here?
In many foreign cultures, the "ownership" of females by their male relatives (modern day slavery?)
How about stoning women to death for adultery, while the man goes scot free?
How about muslim men being allowed to divorce their wives by simply saying "I divorce thee" (the woman has no such right).

In fact how about all of Sharia Law? Under Sharia Law women are prohibited from pursuing certain careers and occupations and are supposed to stay at home doing the housekeeping and tending the kids. No doubt the chauvinists and sexists on this forum see no problem with such primitive and unenlightened practises becoming part of our mainstream culture, decades after they have been all but eradicated.


According to some FMs' reasoning we are supposed to allow all immigrants the right to pursue their culture and traditions, even if they are at odds with our social and legal norms and practices. Is there anyone on here prepared to defend the indigeneous population's right to have OUR culture and traditions paramount as they have always been. Britain has always assimilated immigrant culture and tradition, which in turn has enriched ours, but NEVER at the expense of our national safety, security, morality, ethics or laws.

The wearing of the Burkha in public buildings, public transport and anywhere where the identification of the wearer should be apparent and obvious, should be banned forthwith - it is NOT a religious requirement, and is NOT even a cultural requirement within the home countries of the women who wear them, it is a garment of CHOICE, imposed by some men on their subjugated and demeaned women. The argument that we should all be allowed to wear what we want in public is ridiculous - try walking down the high street with nothing but your shoes on and see how far you get - yet nudity is a cultural norm in some countries.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by angus58

Culture and tradition are what bind people together, give them a sense of pride and loyalty to their country and to their fellow citizens. Britain has a long and varied culture which has been contributed to by generations of immigrants who have come to this country, integrated and enriched our traditions and way of life as their cultures have been assimilated into ours. That does not mean the host nation should be expected to have their way of life superseded by cultures that evolved in different countries under different circumstances and different histories.

Many of the dissenters on this forum are bleating on about "it's their culture" as if that is sufficient reason for the host culture to submit. I have still had not a single FM comment on the cultural activities of some of the immigrants who come here which are not only immoral, but illegal.

How about honour killings, quite common in many middle eastern and asian cultures?
How about underage sex and marriage which we call paedophilia over here? Girls of 11 and 12 are married off in a lot of cultures.
How about polygamy? How about forced arranged marriages?
How about Sati (widow burning)? How about the eating of animals we consider domestic pets here?
In many foreign cultures, the "ownership" of females by their male relatives (modern day slavery?)
How about stoning women to death for adultery, while the man goes scot free?
How about muslim men being allowed to divorce their wives by simply saying "I divorce thee" (the woman has no such right).

In fact how about all of Sharia Law? Under Sharia Law women are prohibited from pursuing certain careers and occupations and are supposed to stay at home doing the housekeeping and tending the kids. No doubt the chauvinists and sexists on this forum see no problem with such primitive and unenlightened practises becoming part of our mainstream culture, decades after they have been all but eradicated.


According to some FMs' reasoning we are supposed to allow all immigrants the right to pursue their culture and traditions, even if they are at odds with our social and legal norms and practices. Is there anyone on here prepared to defend the indigeneous population's right to have OUR culture and traditions paramount as they have always been. Britain has always assimilated immigrant culture and tradition, which in turn has enriched ours, but NEVER at the expense of our national safety, security, morality, ethics or laws.

The wearing of the Burkha in public buildings, public transport and anywhere where the identification of the wearer should be apparent and obvious, should be banned forthwith - it is NOT a religious requirement, and is NOT even a cultural requirement within the home countries of the women who wear them, it is a garment of CHOICE, imposed by some men on their subjugated and demeaned women. The argument that we should all be allowed to wear what we want in public is ridiculous - try walking down the high street with nothing but your shoes on and see how far you get - yet nudity is a cultural norm in some countries.

You seem to want to concentrate on the problems with other cultures ALL the time...funny that..."at the expense of our national safety, security, morality, ethics or laws"? pleeease look out yer window and get your head out the Daily Mail, your being a tad irrational...like we condone any of the things your talking about JeeZ

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by angus58

Culture and tradition are what bind people together, give them a sense of pride and loyalty to their country and to their fellow citizens. Britain has a long and varied culture which has been contributed to by generations of immigrants who have come to this country, integrated and enriched our traditions and way of life as their cultures have been assimilated into ours. That does not mean the host nation should be expected to have their way of life superseded by cultures that evolved in different countries under different circumstances and different histories.

Many of the dissenters on this forum are bleating on about "it's their culture" as if that is sufficient reason for the host culture to submit. I have still had not a single FM comment on the cultural activities of some of the immigrants who come here which are not only immoral, but illegal.

How about honour killings, quite common in many middle eastern and asian cultures?
How about underage sex and marriage which we call paedophilia over here? Girls of 11 and 12 are married off in a lot of cultures.
How about polygamy? How about forced arranged marriages?
How about Sati (widow burning)? How about the eating of animals we consider domestic pets here?
In many foreign cultures, the "ownership" of females by their male relatives (modern day slavery?)
How about stoning women to death for adultery, while the man goes scot free?
How about muslim men being allowed to divorce their wives by simply saying "I divorce thee" (the woman has no such right).

In fact how about all of Sharia Law? Under Sharia Law women are prohibited from pursuing certain careers and occupations and are supposed to stay at home doing the housekeeping and tending the kids. No doubt the chauvinists and sexists on this forum see no problem with such primitive and unenlightened practises becoming part of our mainstream culture, decades after they have been all but eradicated.


According to some FMs' reasoning we are supposed to allow all immigrants the right to pursue their culture and traditions, even if they are at odds with our social and legal norms and practices. Is there anyone on here prepared to defend the indigeneous population's right to have OUR culture and traditions paramount as they have always been. Britain has always assimilated immigrant culture and tradition, which in turn has enriched ours, but NEVER at the expense of our national safety, security, morality, ethics or laws.
The wearing of the Burkha in public buildings, public transport and anywhere where the identification of the wearer should be apparent and obvious, should be banned forthwith - it is NOT a religious requirement, and is NOT even a cultural requirement within the home countries of the women who wear them, it is a garment of CHOICE, imposed by some men on their subjugated and demeaned women. The argument that we should all be allowed to wear what we want in public is ridiculous - try walking down the high street with nothing but your shoes on and see how far you get - yet nudity is a cultural norm in some countries.

They do seem few and far between - probably because they just get shouted down with accusations of racism! More intimidation tactics!

Britain is a strong, powerful and economically successful country with its own distinctive culture and way of life - which seems to evoke a form of envy and jealousy in some! Just because Britain has been a welcoming country and encouraged the assimilation and integration of different cultures into its society, does not mean it has lost its own unique culture and identity!

I am sick of these rather insidious attempts by some to belittle Britain, its history, culture etc and their constant attempts to 'convince' us that Britain is no longer Britain as we know it - but just some hugh melting-pot of diversity with no identity of its own! Rubbish!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

They do seem few and far between - probably because they just get shouted down with accusations of racism! More intimidation tactics!

Britain is a strong, powerful and economically successful country with its own distinctive culture and way of life - which seems to evoke a form of envy and jealousy in some! Just because Britain has been a welcoming country and encouraged the assimilation and integration of different cultures into its society, does not mean it has lost its own unique culture and identity!

I am sick of these rather insidious attempts by some to belittle Britain, its history, culture etc and their constant attempts to 'convince' us that Britain is no longer Britain as we know it - but just some hugh melting-pot of diversity with no identity of its own! Rubbish!

What exactly are we losing? Whos belittling anything?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by angus58

Culture and tradition are what bind people together, give them a sense of pride and loyalty to their country and to their fellow citizens. Britain has a long and varied culture which has been contributed to by generations of immigrants who have come to this country, integrated and enriched our traditions and way of life as their cultures have been assimilated into ours. That does not mean the host nation should be expected to have their way of life superseded by cultures that evolved in different countries under different circumstances and different histories.

Many of the dissenters on this forum are bleating on about "it's their culture" as if that is sufficient reason for the host culture to submit. I have still had not a single FM comment on the cultural activities of some of the immigrants who come here which are not only immoral, but illegal.

How about honour killings, quite common in many middle eastern and asian cultures?
How about underage sex and marriage which we call paedophilia over here? Girls of 11 and 12 are married off in a lot of cultures.
How about polygamy? How about forced arranged marriages?
How about Sati (widow burning)? How about the eating of animals we consider domestic pets here?
In many foreign cultures, the "ownership" of females by their male relatives (modern day slavery?)
How about stoning women to death for adultery, while the man goes scot free?
How about muslim men being allowed to divorce their wives by simply saying "I divorce thee" (the woman has no such right).

In fact how about all of Sharia Law? Under Sharia Law women are prohibited from pursuing certain careers and occupations and are supposed to stay at home doing the housekeeping and tending the kids. No doubt the chauvinists and sexists on this forum see no problem with such primitive and unenlightened practises becoming part of our mainstream culture, decades after they have been all but eradicated.


According to some FMs' reasoning we are supposed to allow all immigrants the right to pursue their culture and traditions, even if they are at odds with our social and legal norms and practices. Is there anyone on here prepared to defend the indigeneous population's right to have OUR culture and traditions paramount as they have always been. Britain has always assimilated immigrant culture and tradition, which in turn has enriched ours, but NEVER at the expense of our national safety, security, morality, ethics or laws.

The wearing of the Burkha in public buildings, public transport and anywhere where the identification of the wearer should be apparent and obvious, should be banned forthwith - it is NOT a religious requirement, and is NOT even a cultural requirement within the home countries of the women who wear them, it is a garment of CHOICE, imposed by some men on their subjugated and demeaned women. The argument that we should all be allowed to wear what we want in public is ridiculous - try walking down the high street with nothing but your shoes on and see how far you get - yet nudity is a cultural norm in some countries.

The fact that you equate wearing a burqa with nonour killings, stoning a woman and paedophillia is ridiculous. You fail to see the point:

Honour killings, stoning etc. would not be allowed in this country because they are oppressive, abhorrent and out of place in a 21st century, tolerant society

Wearing a burqa is none of the above. Allowing the burqa to be worn is not pandering to sharia law, it's nothing to do with that. I am simply acknowledging that in our secular and multicultural country then if someone feels necessary to wear a religious garment that covers their face then they have every right to do so, and we should not be dictating to them a certain clothing style.

You said it yourself, it is a garment of choice, that some woman feel is hugely important to their religion, and freedom of choice should be allowed. It may not technincally be a religious requirement but it is considered to be of huge importance to both their religion and often their culture by the people who wear it, and we should respect that instead of crying "terrorist" everytime you see somebody whos face is covered.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The fact that you equate wearing a burqa with nonour killings, stoning a woman and paedophillia is ridiculous. You fail to see the point:

Honour killings, stoning etc. would not be allowed in this country because they are oppressive, abhorrent and out of place in a 21st century, tolerant society

Wearing a burqa is none of the above. Allowing the burqa to be worn is not pandering to sharia law, it's nothing to do with that. I am simply acknowledging that in our secular and multicultural country then if someone feels necessary to wear a religious garment that covers their face then they have every right to do so, and we should not be dictating to them a certain clothing style.

You said it yourself, it is a garment of choice, that some woman feel is hugely important to their religion, and freedom of choice should be allowed. It may not technincally be a religious requirement but it is considered to be of huge importance to both their religion and often their culture by the people who wear it, and we should respect that instead of crying "terrorist" everytime you see somebody whos face is covered.

The burka has been used by terrorists on several occasions - and does, without doubt, pose a security threat - you can't deny it!

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/04/22/the-burqa-bomb/

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

The burka has been used by terrorists on several occasions - and does, without doubt, pose a security threat - you can't deny it!

Oh yes, that has definitely happened with Muslims murdering innocent people or other rival Muslims.
Interestingly, I recall some Jews used this to assassinate some Muslim murderers. Does anyone remember that? I don't think it was in 'Munich' but maybe i saw it on a documentary.

But yeah, there are countries in the Arab world where women are (by law) to wear those.
So here it can be a similar thing. Like their own countries. where they had to wear them. Except here you are not allowed to wear the veil. It is a law. Same idea.
Not for religious law enforcement but in this case so Muslims can't murder people as easily.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

The burka has been used by terrorists on several occasions - and does, without doubt, pose a security threat - you can't deny it!

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/04/22/the-burqa-bomb/

Ahahaha bet you've been scouring for that day and night, very balanced I must say....well thats it lets ban it, theyve done it in pakistan, they'll do it here, its only inevitable, MTVN is rite we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Ahahaha bet you've been scouring for that day and night, very balanced I must say....well thats it lets ban it, theyve done it in pakistan, they'll do it here, its only inevitable, MTVN is rite we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

Took me all of two mins!

No - I think we are NOT pandering to terrorists, hysterics and religious nuts! And that doesn't include the left wing nuts!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Took me all of two mins!

No - I think we are NOT pandering to terrorists, hysterics and religious nuts! And that doesn't include the left wing nuts!

Sorry I forgot you are very familiar with anti muslim sites. Yes Wombai we are because theyre really isnt a major issue with a few 1000 women in this country wearing burqua's and identification, theyre just isnt, and to enforce an outright ban is a ludicrous overreaction and very very Un British

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Sorry I forgot you are very familiar with anti muslim sites. Yes Wombai we are because theyre really isnt a major issue with a few 1000 women in this country wearing burqua's and identification, theyre just isnt, and to enforce an outright ban is ludicrous and very very Un British

Very familiar with anti muslim sites indeed - got news for you - all it takes is to type a few words into google - and, there you go - not necessary to know your way around any such sites!

What people do in their own homes and places of worship is up to them - but in public - the burka poses a security threat - fact!

If just one person is killed in this country because of one terrorist posing in one burka - it is unacceptable! No religion, culture or individual choice is above the national security of this country!

Any reasonable person would understand that - it seems to me that the motives of those attempting to challenge such necessary regulations - are dubious to say the least! Either they believe themselves and their culture to be superior to our country's rules/laws or they are just being difficult for the sake of it - and looking to court controversy and publicity!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/o...-1225887202686

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You do keep missing the point don't you! You are the one that said we should allow Muslim women to wear a burka, despite it posing a security risk - because it might damage relations and encourage more terrorist attacks! That is bowing down to intimidation! Simples!

Maybe you should stop getting so worked up and seeing every realistic attempt to keep our citizens safe as some some of attack on Muslims! It is Muslims that have a tendency to be oversensitive about things - and overreact - not us!

Have you conveniently forgotten 9/11, 7/7 and the recent prevention by our security services of further planned attacks! These risks are very real - and noone should be allowed to wear clothing that hides their identity in public.

It isn't just national security either! In schools, colleges and universities - identity is an issue as far as attendance and cheating are concerned! What about exams - we can't have people sitting exams in burkas - it would leave the system wide open to abuse!

No, I'm not saying thats the reason it should be banned, worse relations with Islam and a possible increased terror threat could be unintended consequences of banning it. The reason I'm saying it should be allowed is because it simply is not our right to dictate clothing style and tell someone they cannot wear a religious garment because of an irrational fear and paranoia of terrorism, or because "it isn't our culture".

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

What is this "traditional British culture that built this country", define it for me?

There's that joke about our culture that I remember which says how being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV

A pretty good example by MTVN!

That's belittling?? Why? I asked a genuine question and then told a well-known joke that is true to be honest.

Just 2 nights ago I went to see The Town, an American film at Showcase, an American cinema, and then I went to Chiquito, a Mexican restaurant before we drove home in a Toyota, a Japenese car.

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Ahahaha bet you've been scouring for that day and night, very balanced I must say....well thats it lets ban it, theyve done it in pakistan, they'll do it here, its only inevitable, MTVN is rite we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

Exactly, nail on the head.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

..we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

You aren't pandering to them. They are using you for their own gains.