[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Ahahaha bet you've been scouring for that day and night, very balanced I must say....well thats it lets ban it, theyve done it in pakistan, they'll do it here, its only inevitable, MTVN is rite we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

Took me all of two mins!

No - I think we are NOT pandering to terrorists, hysterics and religious nuts! And that doesn't include the left wing nuts!

[WOMBAI]

[QUOTE=NettoSuperstar!;3820936]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Whats your problem? Do you feel belittled by that? What have you lost exactly?

Nothing - that is my point! Britain has not lost its own culture and identity - despite suggestions to the contrary - and neither will it!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Took me all of two mins!

No - I think we are NOT pandering to terrorists, hysterics and religious nuts! And that doesn't include the left wing nuts!

Sorry I forgot you are very familiar with anti muslim sites. Yes Wombai we are because theyre really isnt a major issue with a few 1000 women in this country wearing burqua's and identification, theyre just isnt, and to enforce an outright ban is a ludicrous overreaction and very very Un British

[NettoSuperstar!]

[QUOTE=WOMBAI;3820946]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Nothing - that is my point! Britain has not lost its own culture and identity - despite suggestions to the contrary - and neither will it!

hahaha so what are you ****ing going on about?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You do keep missing the point don't you! You are the one that said we should allow Muslim women to wear a burka, despite it posing a security risk - because it might damage relations and encourage more terrorist attacks! That is bowing down to intimidation! Simples!

Maybe you should stop getting so worked up and seeing every realistic attempt to keep our citizens safe as some some of attack on Muslims! It is Muslims that have a tendency to be oversensitive about things - and overreact - not us!

Have you conveniently forgotten 9/11, 7/7 and the recent prevention by our security services of further planned attacks! These risks are very real - and noone should be allowed to wear clothing that hides their identity in public.

It isn't just national security either! In schools, colleges and universities - identity is an issue as far as attendance and cheating are concerned! What about exams - we can't have people sitting exams in burkas - it would leave the system wide open to abuse!

No, I'm not saying thats the reason it should be banned, worse relations with Islam and a possible increased terror threat could be unintended consequences of banning it. The reason I'm saying it should be allowed is because it simply is not our right to dictate clothing style and tell someone they cannot wear a religious garment because of an irrational fear and paranoia of terrorism, or because "it isn't our culture".

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

What is this "traditional British culture that built this country", define it for me?

There's that joke about our culture that I remember which says how being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV

A pretty good example by MTVN!

That's belittling?? Why? I asked a genuine question and then told a well-known joke that is true to be honest.

Just 2 nights ago I went to see The Town, an American film at Showcase, an American cinema, and then I went to Chiquito, a Mexican restaurant before we drove home in a Toyota, a Japenese car.

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Ahahaha bet you've been scouring for that day and night, very balanced I must say....well thats it lets ban it, theyve done it in pakistan, they'll do it here, its only inevitable, MTVN is rite we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts

Exactly, nail on the head.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Sorry I forgot you are very familiar with anti muslim sites. Yes Wombai we are because theyre really isnt a major issue with a few 1000 women in this country wearing burqua's and identification, theyre just isnt, and to enforce an outright ban is ludicrous and very very Un British

Very familiar with anti muslim sites indeed - got news for you - all it takes is to type a few words into google - and, there you go - not necessary to know your way around any such sites!

What people do in their own homes and places of worship is up to them - but in public - the burka poses a security threat - fact!

If just one person is killed in this country because of one terrorist posing in one burka - it is unacceptable! No religion, culture or individual choice is above the national security of this country!

Any reasonable person would understand that - it seems to me that the motives of those attempting to challenge such necessary regulations - are dubious to say the least! Either they believe themselves and their culture to be superior to our country's rules/laws or they are just being difficult for the sake of it - and looking to court controversy and publicity!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/o...-1225887202686

[WOMBAI]

[QUOTE=NettoSuperstar!;3820953]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

hahaha so what are you ****ing going on about?

Funny that - was thinking exactly the same of you!

[NettoSuperstar!]

[QUOTE=WOMBAI;3820959]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Funny that - was thinking exactly the same of you!

So you werent banging on about people wishing to dismiss and destroy British Culture? okaaay Bob

[WOMBAI]

[QUOTE=NettoSuperstar!;3820991]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

So you werent banging on about people wishing to dismiss and destroy British Culture? okaaay Bob

Do you not understand that by saying that Britain is now a multi-cultural society without a cultural identity of its own - that is what you are doing! Your posts suggest that you don't think much of traditional British culture and you seem to delight in the idea that multi-culturalism has 'knocked it off its perch' and taken over! It hasn't!

This is Britain with a society of many diverse cultures - with British culture being the dominant force - as it should be in Britain - just as I would expect Japanese culture to dominate Japan, and Arab culture to dominate countries in the Middle-East!

Like most of those of British descent - I love my country and its culture - it is my identity - and I have no desire to see that culture no longer recognised as predominantly British - which is why I choose to live in Britain and not some Middle Eastern country!

Despite how some seem to want to eradicate Britain's traditional cultural identity in favour of some multi-cultural wasteland, with no innate individual identity - Britain will always remain British with a traditional British culture and way of life - because us Brits can be a stubborn bunch too!

[Angus]

Typical left wing woolly minded liberalism - anyone who dares to speak out about something like this is accused of xenophobia, racism etc. No wonder this country is in such a bloody mess when we are not able to have reasonable debates about things that affect us all without idiots trying to stifle opposition with such accusations.

During the 70s and 80s at the height of the IRA bombings everyone was searched going in and out of all public buildings, and all waste bins were removed from station concourses and pillar boxes were sealed up. An OTT reaction to terrorist threats? Maybe, but it sure as hell made me feel safer when I was working in Central London. There was an outcry at the time about civil liberties being infringed because of the searches, but in times of crisis national security supersedes all other concerns. Try living in London or any other major city where the threat of terrorism is always in the back of your mind.

The Burkha is not a NECESSARY item of clothing,and I guarantee the FMs mouthing off the most about allowing women to wear it are MEN. If their argument is that the wearing of the burkha is not illegal, then it's high time it was made so, since national security and the rights of all other citizens to feel safe in public places, should be put above the rights of a minority of people who wish to wear it. Especially since the wearing of this garment is purely a matter of choice, NOT a religious OR a cultural requirement. How about a bit of commonsense for a change?

[NettoSuperstar!]

[QUOTE=WOMBAI;3821000]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Do you not understand that by saying that Britain is now a multi-cultural society without an cultural identity of its own - that is what you are doing! Your posts suggest that you don't think much of traditional British culture and you seem to delight in the idea that multi-culturalism has 'knocked it off its perch' and taken over! It hasn't!

This is Britain with a society of many diverse cultures - with British culture being the dominant force - as it should be in Britain - just as I would expect Japanese culture to dominate Japan, and Arab culture to dominate countries in the Middle-East!

Like most of those of British descent - I love my country and its culture - it is my identity - and I have no desire to see that culture no longer recognised as predominantly British - which is why I choose to live in Britain and not some Middle Eastern country!

Despite how some seem to want to eradicate Britain's traditional cultural identity in favour of some multi-cultural wasteland, with no innate individual identity - Britain will always remain British with a traditional British culture and way of life - because us Brits can be a stubborn bunch too!

What are you on? knocking British culture of its perch? lol British culture is made up of multicultural influence too, its not just cricket and cream teas Wombai and also you seem to think that our culture is under threat from "others", its not. This is far from a middle eastern country, what just cos a few want to wear a burqua?? it never will be. Britain is built on tolerance and freedom of choice. By banning the burqa your going against all that is British

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by angus58

Typical left wing woolly minded liberalism - anyone who dares to speak out about something like this is accused of xenophobia, racism etc. No wonder this country is in such a bloody mess when we are not able to have reasonable debates about things that affect us all without idiots trying to stifle opposition with such accusations.

During the 70s and 80s at the height of the IRA bombings everyone was searched going in and out of all public buildings, and all waste bins were removed from station concourses and pillar boxes were sealed up. An OTT reaction to terrorist threats? Maybe, but it sure as hell made me feel safer when I was working in Central London. There was an outcry at the time about civil liberties being infringed because of the searches, but in times of crisis national security supersedes all other concerns. Try living in London or any other major city where the threat of terrorism is always in the back of your mind.

The Burkha is not a NECESSARY item of clothing,and I guarantee the FMs mouthing off the most about allowing women to wear it are MEN. If their argument is that the wearing of the burkha is not illegal, then it's high time it was made so, since national security and the rights of all other citizens to feel safe in public places, should be put above the rights of a minority of people who wish to wear it. Especially since the wearing of this garment is purely a matter of choice, NOT a religious OR a cultural requirement. How about a bit of commonsense for a change?

Most of us do feel safe though I dont break out in a sweat when Im sat next to a woman in a burqa, JeeZ...you try having some common sense and proportion

...also not a man and also live in a major multicultural city, the threat of terrorism is something I rarely think about being a bit rational and all (and also waiting to be called a wooly liberal hahaha)

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Most of us do feel safe though I dont break out in a sweat when Im sat next to a woman in a burqa, JeeZ...you try having some common sense and proportion

...also not a man and also live in a major multicultural city, the threat of terrorism is something I rarely think about being a bit rational and all (and also waiting to be called a wooly liberal hahaha)

Maybe you are simply too 'naive' and idealistic to fully comprehend the potential threat to our society! What about the recent planned attacks that were thwarted by intelligence - how do you know that hiding their identities behind burkas weren't a part of that plan! You don't! It won't be the last!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ne-strike.html

All I can say - is that if and when there is another attack in Britain - I hope any unfortunate victims are the loved ones of those whose attitudes contributed to allowing it to happen and not of those totally opposed to allowing anything that increases the risks!

[Shasown]

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Yeah, thats what I've been arguing, I dont think the burqa should be completely banned in public, but I can understand that it may be necessary for it to be removed sometimes.

Some good points with the rest of your post by the way.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

ennit haha

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Sunglasses, caps, even hoods etc don't totally conceal identity - and you can always tell whether it is a man or a woman! A burka is totally concealing - making it much easier for someone to hide their identity and other items.

Also - because of the associated female modesty issue - people are less inclined to ask them to remove it - for fear of offence! It makes people feel uncomfortable - and Muslims are well aware of this!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Maybe you are simply too 'naive' and idealistic to fully comprehend the potential threat to our society! What about the recent planned attacks that were thwarted by intelligence - how do you know that hiding their identities behind burkas weren't a part of that plan! You don't! It won't be the last!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ne-strike.html

All I can say - is that if and when there is another attack in Britain - I hope any unfortunate victims are the loved ones of those whose attitudes contributed to allowing it to happen and not of those totally opposed to allowing anything that increases the risks!

Im anything but naive, I just dont get carried away with media sensationalism, and reactionary political propoganda. I am probably as likely to get attacked by a burqa covered Jihadi as run over by a bus, thats rationalism not idealism....and you fail to see how your reactionary position and the resulting increased marginalisation WOULD increase the risks

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Im anything but naive, I just dont get carried away with media sensationalism, and reactionary political propoganda. I am probably as likely to get attacked by a burqa covered Jihadi as run over by a bus, thats rationalism not idealism....and you fail to see how your reactionary position WOULD increase the risks

When it does happen - tell that to the families of the victims!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

When it does happen - tell that to the families of the victims!

Rite O Wombat

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Rite O Wombat

Can't reason with a childish name caller! Shouldn't you be at school!

[NettoSuperstar!]

lol

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Sunglasses, wigs, latex etc certainly DISGUISE people's appearance but the burkha completely annihilates all evidence of identity, so to use those as an example is frankly ridiculous. Furthermore, I disagree that the burkha should be allowed on public transport or in any public buildings which are closed environments. Compromise is not a one way street - what some FMs seem to be demanding is that, once again, we must submit to other people's cultural norms even if we may find them offensive, abhorrent or downright dangerous. No-one dragged anyone to this country kicking and screaming, they came voluntarily, and they should have the commonsense and courtesy to comply with the laws, rules and regulations the rest of us have to abide by.

I am also totally fed up with MEN being so blase about this truly abhorrent visual sign of female oppression. I will say it again - no man would ever submit to such an indignity.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Im anything but naive, I just dont get carried away with media sensationalism, and reactionary political propoganda. I am probably as likely to get attacked by a burqa covered Jihadi as run over by a bus, thats rationalism not idealism....and you fail to see how your reactionary position and the resulting increased marginalisation WOULD increase the risks

The wearing of a burkha is REACTIONARY and has no place in modern day society whether in Britain, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan. In Islamic countries enlightened women are fighting against oppression and subjugation, but because of the male dominated hierarchy it will take them decades, if ever, to achieve the same freedoms we in the West enjoy. What excuse do we have in Britain to encourage such outdated, reactionary practices? We should be encouraging progress and enlightenment. Do you not GET that? Why would you NOT want these brainwashed, oppressed women to join the
21st century?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by angus58

Sunglasses, wigs, latex etc certainly DISGUISE people's appearance but the burkha completely annihilates all evidence of identity, so to use those as an example is frankly ridiculous. Furthermore, I disagree that the burkha should be allowed on public transport or in any public buildings which are closed environments. Compromise is not a one way street - what some FMs seem to be demanding is that, once again, we must submit to other people's cultural norms even if we may find them offensive, abhorrent or downright dangerous. No-one dragged anyone to this country kicking and screaming, they came voluntarily, and they should have the commonsense and courtesy to comply with the laws, rules and regulations the rest of us have to abide by.

I am also totally fed up with MEN being so blase about this truly abhorrent visual sign of female oppression. I will say it again - no man would ever submit to such an indignity.

Banning a woman from wearing something out of her own free will - that is oppression.

You still dont undertsand that banning a religious garment is an infringement on civil liberties, and an infringement on religious freedom. And before you go on about how it is not techincally a requriement I'll reiterate that neither are crucuifixes, nor is the kippah for Jews. By saying that I'm not saying that the burqa and the kippah are similar, not at all, but they are both ways of somebody expressing their religion, and that is a right that freedom of religion grants.

We are not submitting to others cultural norms. If you find the burqa abhorrent and offensive then that you really do need to get over yourself and your petty attitude where you think you have the right to decide what clothing is and isnt acceptable. We are a multicultural and secular society, whether you and your BNP, Daily Mail-reading buddies like it or not, and we should therefore be tolerant of other religious and cultural customs, instead of holding them in contempt.

The number of women who wear burqas is tiny, no more than a thousand or two. Just live and let live.