[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kazanne

The Social services,Oh yes like the ones who saved baby Peter,Victoria Climbie,Kyra Isshak,Jessica Randal,Brandon Muir,I could reel a page off.I don't think we ARE better than the criminals if we sit back and do nothing,I am not saying lets have a mass slaughter,but at least let the punishment fit the crime,some people are evil,simple as.

Another excellent post,
I think Angus58 and kazanne have spoken for the vast majority of decent people in the UK with their opinions on this issue.


A saying I like goes something like this,
for evil to thrive,the good just need to sit and do nothing.
Sadly that is exactly waht happens as to the abuse of Children,its time that all changed and if massively harsher penalties are part of the answer then so be it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I have my reasons for hating child abusers,I haven't screamed anyone down,I don't care who doesn't agree with me,i DO care that certain people find that if something is said in a 'joke' then it's ok to laugh at,but each to their own.

I'm not saying don't hate them but there's a line between hating them and saying they should be tortured and murdered like you have throughout the whole topic.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lily.

If they were locked away for life.. and I do mean 'life' .. until the day they die, then we wouldn't have to worry about them hurting another child.

I don't agree with taking the law into our own hands. Where would be the point in that? Where does that lead society? The problem in this country is the lenient laws we have. If criminals got proper sentences appropriate to the crime, then the public wouldn't be ready to dole out their own unique brand of twisted justice.

If the law were changed and sentences were given which reflect the severity of the crime... and the public felt safe as a result, there wouldn't be so many people ready to take the vigilante route..

However, taking the vigilante route is not the answer to the problem. It will only create wider problems. Who would decide where to draw the line? When would it be okay to deal with things yourself?





That all being said, if it were my baby, I'd kill the ******.
(I just sh!t all over my previous points with that last sentence.. )

LOL,at your last sentence,I agree IF the criminals were dealt with properly,people would be happier with the system as it is ,it's ok to do what you like as you will be cared for by the tax payers and may even get a new identity!!!

[lily.]

The problem is with the system. It has to change.

The reason for the decline in society is the lax judicial system. That's a fact.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not saying don't hate them but there's a line between hating them and saying they should be tortured and murdered like you have throughout the whole topic.

Where have i said they should be tortured or murdered!!? all I've said is that they should get their hands chopped off or be steralized!! both throw away lines which some have taken literally,blimey are you sure it's me who needs to calm down? but there are a few I'de like to torture!!!lol,calm down it's a throw away line again,couldn't hurt a criminal could we

[setanta]

Originally Posted by lily.

If they were locked away for life.. and I do mean 'life' .. until the day they die, then we wouldn't have to worry about them hurting another child.

I don't agree with taking the law into our own hands. Where would be the point in that? Where does that lead society? The problem in this country is the lenient laws we have. If criminals got proper sentences appropriate to the crime, then the public wouldn't be ready to dole out their own unique brand of twisted justice.

If the law were changed and sentences were given which reflect the severity of the crime... and the public felt safe as a result, there wouldn't be so many people ready to take the vigilante route..

However, taking the vigilante route is not the answer to the problem. It will only create wider problems. Who would decide where to draw the line? When would it be okay to deal with things yourself?





That all being said, if it were my baby, I'd kill the ******.
(I just sh!t all over my previous points with that last sentence.. )

Oh, that's totally different. If anything like that were to happen to any of my beautiful cousins I'd drop the $Ł"!, no question, and then role around in my own faeces so I can claim temporary insanity.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by lily.

The problem is with the system. It has to change.

The reason for the decline in society is the lax judicial system. That's a fact.

True and I agree with that and think that longer sentences need to be utilised more but I can't condone captial punishment or vigilantism. It does nothing for the victims and cheapens us all.

[lily.]

Setanta, if you regularly roll around in your own faeces, you can't use that defense though.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by lily.

If you regularly roll around in your own faeces, you can't use that defense though.

Nah, only for special occasions that I hope I never have to go through. But yeah, have to have your defense all sorted out before you do him in.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Where have i said they should be tortured or murdered!!? all I've said is that they should get their hands chopped off or be steralized!! both throw away lines which some have taken literally,blimey are you sure it's me who needs to calm down? but there are a few I'de like to torture!!!lol,calm down it's a throw away line again,couldn't hurt a criminal could we

So hands being chopped off doesn't come under torture in your books?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lily.

We need to lock up child sex offenders, and keep them locked up.

Experts say they can't be cured, so why allow them the freedom to re-offend.

I dont think it is necessarily true that sex offenders are "incurable", there are ways of rehabilitating them so that they dont reoffend.

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

True and I agree with that and think that longer sentences need to be utilised more but I can't condone captial punishment or vigilantism. It does nothing for the vicitims and cheapens us all.

100% agree. That's the point I made before about where we draw the line..

Who decides it's okay to kick the sh!t out of one guy because he robbed an old lady, but not okay to do it to another because he robbed RS McColl?

That's a lame example, but laws are there for a reason. They're supposed to protect us, and create a society we can all live in safely. Unfortunately, the laws in this country seem to protect the criminals more than they protect the victims. That's the reason decent people turn to crime to 'get even'.

I don't see this changing though. It's gotten worse over the years, and we're now known for our 'soft touch' legal system.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by kazanne

It IS an achievment and the best thing in the world,to have a child is or should be a blessing.

That's all very swish and dandy, but I highly doubt that the walls of your pregnant womb were imbued with an elixir of knowledge. I hate this assumption that all teenagers and childless parties in this argument cannot understand the severity of the crime committed here, because they haven't fulfilled a universally available biological process.

It's interesting what lily and setanta said - if this were their children they would want to rip them apart. And that's understandable - there is no underestimating the personal hatred and anger they, or you, or I, would go through in that scenario.

However, here, the crime is entirely neutral to all of us. And yet we're divided into two camps: those with composure, and those citing violence. That is the very core distinction here.

Of course, citing violence and causing it are very different things. But that's only in this instance - for example, looking at child porn and taking part in child porn are very different. Does that make the observant form (the former) any less severe? No, because they are still practicing in child pornography. You, and angus58, and whoever else has posted in agreement here, are practicing in violence.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Another excellent post,
I think Angus58 and kazanne have spoken for the vast majority of decent people in the UK with their opinions on this issue.


A saying I like goes something like this,
for evil to thrive,the good just need to sit and do nothing.
Sadly that is exactly waht happens as to the abuse of Children,its time that all changed and if massively harsher penalties are part of the answer then so be it.

That is the quote Joey and it's so true

[Angus]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I have my reasons for hating child abusers,I haven't screamed anyone down,I don't care who doesn't agree with me,i DO care that certain people find that if something is said in a 'joke' then it's ok to laugh at,but each to their own.

Like you, Kazanne, I have my own reasons for emotional investment in this issue, and I don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone. If some people can't stop and consider why you or I might feel so passionately about this highly emotive subject, it just goes to show why paedophiles are literally getting away with murder and when it comes to "human rights", the law seems to favour the scum of the earth over the victims. Yes, I will play the parent card, since someone who has never had kids has no idea of the strength and depth of love and protectiveness one feels for your own child. Let's hope the FMs on here, most of whom are still wet behind the ears, never have to face the agony of having their own flesh and blood abused by some predatory paedophile.

The fact that a poster on here has actually asked you if you consider your children an achievement is staggeringly ignorant, and gives great insight into the value they place on a child. There is absolutely NO way that a parent would not do anything to get justice for their abused child IF the judicial system is not prepared to do the job. The FMs on here preaching about compassion and civilised behaviour can preen themselves all they want on their high horses whilst patting each other on the back for being oh so reasonable and superior, but I guarantee if ever such a dreadful thing happened to their own flesh and blood, their attitudes would be entirely different.

[Lucy.]

Absoloutly sickening, but I completely agree taking the law into your own hands is not the way, although I do understand why people feel that way, especially family and parents.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Shaun

That's all very swish and dandy, but I highly doubt that the walls of your pregnant womb were imbued with an elixir of knowledge. I hate this assumption that all teenagers and childless parties in this argument cannot understand the severity of the crime committed here, because they haven't fulfilled a universally available biological process.

It's interesting what lily and setanta said - if this were their children they would want to rip them apart. And that's understandable - there is no underestimating the personal hatred and anger they, or you, or I, would go through in that scenario.

However, here, the crime is entirely neutral to all of us. And yet we're divided into two camps: those with composure, and those citing violence. That is the very core distinction here.

Of course, citing violence and causing it are very different things. But that's only in this instance - for example, looking at child porn and taking part in child porn are very different. Does that make the observant form (the former) any less severe? No, because they are still practicing in child pornography. You, and angus58, and whoever else has posted in agreement here, are practicing in violence.

Good post Shaun.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Shaun

That's all very swish and dandy, but I highly doubt that the walls of your pregnant womb were imbued with an elixir of knowledge. I hate this assumption that all teenagers and childless parties in this argument cannot understand the severity of the crime committed here, because they haven't fulfilled a universally available biological process.

It's interesting what lily and setanta said - if this were their children they would want to rip them apart. And that's understandable - there is no underestimating the personal hatred and anger they, or you, or I, would go through in that scenario.

However, here, the crime is entirely neutral to all of us. And yet we're divided into two camps: those with composure, and those citing violence. That is the very core distinction here.

Of course, citing violence and causing it are very different things. But that's only in this instance - for example, looking at child porn and taking part in child porn are very different. Does that make the observant form (the former) any less severe? No, because they are still practicing in child pornography. You, and angus58, and whoever else has posted in agreement here, are practicing in violence.

Post of the week.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Shaun

That's all very swish and dandy, but I highly doubt that the walls of your pregnant womb were imbued with an elixir of knowledge. I hate this assumption that all teenagers and childless parties in this argument cannot understand the severity of the crime committed here, because they haven't fulfilled a universally available biological process.

It's interesting what lily and setanta said - if this were their children they would want to rip them apart. And that's understandable - there is no underestimating the personal hatred and anger they, or you, or I, would go through in that scenario.

However, here, the crime is entirely neutral to all of us. And yet we're divided into two camps: those with composure, and those citing violence. That is the very core distinction here.

Of course, citing violence and causing it are very different things. But that's only in this instance - for example, looking at child porn and taking part in child porn are very different. Does that make the observant form (the former) any less severe? No, because they are still practicing in child pornography. You, and angus58, and whoever else has posted in agreement here, are practicing in violence.

How do you know what crime is neutral to people?No one is inciting violence,people write things like that all the time it doesn't mean they would ever carry it out,Have you ever said you would kill someone,most of us have in anger,they are throw away lines and people are taking them too literally,having said that,I have every reason to feel as i do,it's not for this forum,but some criminals are beyond help and a slap on the wrist will never make them behave!!!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Post of the week.

Well of course it would be,LOL

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Lucy.

Absoloutly sickening, but I completely agree taking the law into your own hands is not the way, although I do understand why people feel that way, especially family and parents.

People need to read the posts properly - IF the judicial system is not prepared to do the right thing and hand out appropriate and stiff sentences, is it any wonder that the parents and families of abused children want justice for their children? Unfortunately the Law these days is less to do with justice and more to do with technicalities and the "human rights" of the inhuman scum that commit such horrendous crimes.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I dont think it is necessarily true that sex offenders are "incurable", there are ways of rehabilitating them so that they dont reoffend.

Quite a number of them do and, because of it being such a taboo subject in today's society, not many in depth studies have been made and it's been fairly neglected by the medical community: there's no real empirical evidence or common practices being used when dealing with Paedophilia. Actually, you should watch Louis Theroux's documentary to see how the States are dealing with the problem... it's laughable and quite pathetic in a way really.

[joeysteele]

I thimk Angus58 and kazanne have made excellent points on here as to this issue, there is no neutrality on an issue like this, Children cannot speak for themselves so we have to.

All people need to do is think, what if this was their little Brother, Sister, Niece,Nephew, Friends child and more to the point their child being abused,then what would they say.

All kazanne and Angus58 are saying is that the abuse of Children cannot be allowed to go on, the law at present does not deal with this in the way it should.
I hope that will change, but think if it was your child or a child you knew, what would your thinking really be and if being totally honest I doubt it would differ in those circumstances from kazanne and Angus58.

Children need our support and vigilance, nothing maddens me more than a child being abused by people with no excuse and I mean no excuse for doing so.
It is likely the lowest act any one can do against a defenceless child,it can never be justified and on this isuue the punishment can never be severe enough.
Virtually 'none' of the perpetrators of these crimes against children ever want help or think of seeking help as to their 'evil' thoughts until they are caught, fact.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by angus58

People need to read the posts properly - IF the judicial system is not prepared to do the right thing and hand out appropriate and stiff sentences, is it any wonder that the parents and families of abused children want justice for their children? Unfortunately the Law these days is less to do with justice and more to do with technicalities and the "human rights" of the inhuman scum that commit such horrendous crimes.

How ironic. People need to read the posts properly, i.e. you. I said I UNDERSTAND why people want justice for their children, but ending someone's life wether their is a reason for it or not is making you a killer whichever way you choose to look at it. We are not here to play God and choose who dies and who does not. We are also not here to strip people of human rights, taking someone's right to food and protection away from them is unethical and inhumane and why would you want to stoop to that level? Loss of freedom is the punishment of prison which many people fail to realise. Besides, where do you draw the line with what is and what isn't worth death? Who are you to make that distinction? And don't spout off to me about me not being a parent and not understanding, just because you have a child doesn't give you the right to be immoral.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Like you, Kazanne, I have my own reasons for emotional investment in this issue, and I don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone. If some people can't stop and consider why you or I might feel so passionately about this highly emotive subject, it just goes to show why paedophiles are literally getting away with murder and when it comes to "human rights", the law seems to favour the scum of the earth over the victims. Yes, I will play the parent card, since someone who has never had kids has no idea of the strength and depth of love and protectiveness one feels for your own child. Let's hope the FMs on here, most of whom are still wet behind the ears, never have to face the agony of having their own flesh and blood abused by some predatory paedophile.

The fact that a poster on here has actually asked you if you consider your children an achievement is staggeringly ignorant, and gives great insight into the value they place on a child. There is absolutely NO way that a parent would not do anything to get justice for their abused child IF the judicial system is not prepared to do the job. The FMs on here preaching about compassion and civilised behaviour can preen themselves all they want on their high horses whilst patting each other on the back for being oh so reasonable and superior, but I guarantee if they ever such a dreadful thing happened to their own flesh and blood, their attitudes would be entirely different.

I find it amusing that people think we on the net are separate from the real world,they do not think we know people who have suffered or that we are talking from experience,they just assume we are non identities arguing for the sake of it,and yes Angus you can bet if it happened to them they would not be so 'forgiving',You have given us a great debating topic anyway,i got into trouble as usual,but i refuse to agree with people just to appease them.lets hope that little baby is removed and lives a happy safe life.