[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

For a long time is was the dirty communist. Any enemy of the USA was labelled a commie, dirty red scum. Why? Because they were opposed to capitalism. Why is this bad? MONEY. Its bad for business.

If you think the only reason communism is bad is because of money, then you really need to study communist regimes. It's not MONEY that makes them so evil. They are totalitarian regimes that strip rights from everyone supposedly for the "greater good" Dude seriously, talk to people who actually lived under communist regimes in soviet russia, or china, or north korea, or cuba, and then tell me that it's just about money.

Communism isn't about money, it's about totalitarianism. America was right to fight it.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

If you think the only reason communism is bad is because of money, then you really need to study communist regimes. It's not MONEY that makes them so evil. They are totalitarian regimes that strip rights from everyone supposedly for the "greater good" Dude seriously, talk to people who actually lived under communist regimes in soviet russia, or china, or north korea, or cuba, and then tell me that it's just about money.

Communism isn't about money, it's about totalitarianism. America was right to fight it.

It's not like those things are actually inherent in Communism though, and most Communists would deny those countries were anything like what Socialism should be, especially China and North Korea (who dont even claim to be Communist anyway)

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

or maybe you are scared of truth and prefer to live in ignorance because its easier that way
you refuse the possibility that you could be on the side of evil

I'm not living in ignorance. I like to think I can keep an open mind about stuff... but people who bang on about the evils of capitalism and how America is the ultimate evil are usually the ones who accuse others of being "stupid and naive"... which is exactly what you said in your previous post.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not like those things are actually inherent in Communism though, and most Communists would deny those countries were anything like what Socialism should be, especially China and North Korea (who dont even claim to be Communist anyway)

Well it may not be inherent, but i don't think you can give me an example of a successful communist regime that wasn't totalitarian, can you?

Can you name any successful communist regime that wasn't totalitarian, that actually had democracy and freedom at it's core? I can't think of any.

The whole point of communism is that the government tells you how to live your life, for the greater good of the country. You don't get to choose how you live, or what you study, or how many children you have, or who your leaders are, Communism in every practical sense, is totalitarian.

[Grimnir]

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well it may not be inherent, but i don't think you can give me an example of a successful communist regime that wasn't totalitarian, can you?

Can you name any successful communist regime that wasn't totalitarian, that actually had democracy and freedom at it's core? I can't think of any.

The whole point of communism is that the government tells you how to live your life, for the greater good of the country. You don't get to choose how you live, or what you study, or how many children you have, or who your leaders are, Communism in every practical sense, is totalitarian.

In the very early days after the Russian Revolution, that was probably the closest that somewhere has come to resembling proper Socialism, and in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War although that is more an example of Anarchism

The ultimate goal of Communism is to have a stateless and classless society, but the fact there is a lot of conflict among Communists as to how to get there, some would hold more of authoritarian stance following the likes of Lenin and Stalin but most support bottom up workers democracy and control of the economy.

But anyway we're getting way off topic here

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

.........much better to just take the money, keep schtum and accept the status quo
keep their heads buried in sand just like everyone else does

Everyone... except you, presumably.

[Grimnir]

[Grimnir]

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

the reason for the cold war was not to make people fearful and hateful of the communist system, but to make them embrace the capitalist system

if you raised a group of 30 children on a desert island and taught them pure communism and pure capitalism, then once they reached a certain age asked them to vote on which system they wish to live under, they would choose communism

but if you raise them to believe communism is an evil system and teach them the "american dream" you will have a capitalist society

so then remind me again why the Soviet Union collapsed?

Remind me again why Cuba is such an abject failure, they arn't exposed to capitalism AT ALL. (have you ever heard of an American dying in raft trying to escape evil capitalism, to get to communist Cuba? i havn't)

Remind me again why the people of North Korea are starving to death...

You cannot be serious.

[Zippy]

Grimnir

so please be specific about who you believe was responsible for 9/11? who plotted it, executed it and has thousands of peoples blood on their hands?

see, this is where we get down to specific accusations against specific people.

[Grimnir]

[Stu]

I had my money on it being Hans Gruber .

[Grimnir]

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

You describe Cuba as a failure not me

I would rather live there than USA

You've obviously never been to Cuba (at least not outside of the specifically set up tourist zones)


You do realize that you'd be put in jail immediately for half of the things you've said on this forum, right?

You do realize they have ZERO freedom of speech right?

you do realize that you wouldn't even have access to the internet in Cuba, right?


I can't take you seriously anymore.

[Grimnir]

[Grimnir]

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

you can accept that 19 muslims were responsible for 9/11 right?

can you accept the idea that it was "americans" responsible?

There is documented evidence of Osama bin ladens involvement in the 9/11 attack going back to 1996. Including video footage of him actually with two of the hijackers prior to the attacks. There is recorded confessions of his participation and prior knowledge of the attacks.

The vast majority of the 19 hijackers involved were from Saudi arabia with the other few from UAE, Lebanon and Egypt.

Are you saying Osama wasn't involved? That the hijackers were not guilty of the crime? Or they were actually Americans?

TBH Im not even sure what you're saying because you're being very vague and clouding the issue with references to slavery and communism etc.

I just want you to put out there a clear and precise version of what you think happened on 9/11. Who planned it and who is directly responsible for nearly 3000 deaths. The topic is specifically about 9/11.

[Grimnir]

[Grimnir]

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

ever wonder to yourself why they couldn't catch bin laden for 10 years?

why did tapes always conveniently turn up at al jazeera every so often? how were they recorded? how did they arrive at the tv station? when it was found out who courier was, why were unable to trace them back to source?

remember when we got told bin laden had been killed in a raid, how everyone kept giving conflicting reports and changing the story?
one minute they say they watched the raid on live webcam like a ****in video game, then they changed it and only saw the opening credits
then he was armed, then unarmed, then had a human shield, then he was in his underpants

its a complete ****in joke that so called intelligent sentient beings believe bull**** hogwash bollocks like this
truly amazing the ignorance

i forgot the icing on the cake

buried at sea...... **** off my arse bull****

Tapes turned up at Al Jazeera every so often because thats the way Al Qaeda works, they like to taunt, claim responsibility for things every so often, didnt you know that how terrorists work? Commit a murder or bombing then crow about it, every so often make demands etc to make them seem legitimate.

Why couldnt they follow the courier? jesus its a radio station a bit like radio one, imagine how many couriers they have, in dropping off packages and parcels. On top of which every simpleton knows if you keep using the same courier all the time he is going to get caught so they would periodically change the ones they use.

Of course Bin Liner isnt dead he is currently a guest of Obama at the Guantanamo Country Club and no doubt when his usefullness has ended he will go for a swim in a weighted sack in the Caribbean.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by lostalex

You've obviously never been to Cuba (at least not outside of the specifically set up tourist zones)


You do realize that you'd be put in jail immediately for half of the things you've said on this forum, right?

You do realize they have ZERO freedom of speech right?

you do realize that you wouldn't even have access to the internet in Cuba, right?


I can't take you seriously anymore.

Thats not strictly true, the Cubans have a lot of freedom. Good education system and health care comparitively.

While certain areas of the internet may be censored they do have internet access, I have accessed the internet in Cuba.

They may be a poor country but thats only because of US led embargoes on their produce.

They may be fed a lot of propaganda by the regime in power, but their lot is a better lot than under previous regimes. Everyone gets educated, a job and health care.

And the US led Embargo on them actually has been counter productive, it strengthened the Cubans nationalist feelings and turned them all against you.

[Grimnir]

[Zippy]

Im very impressed you have all this secret info.

Im amazed the US goverment haven't assassinated you.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

if the US government were serious about trying to catch bin laden, do you not think that after the first tape turned up at al jazeera, CIA or some other agency would set up security at al jazeera and monitor incoming packages in an ATTEMPT to discover bin laden's whereabouts?
there would be a trail back to where ever bin laden recorded the tape

the truth is that bin laden made all the tapes whilst in custody of the CIA
when obama said in the press conference, "we have possession of his body" that was the one line of truth, they had him for over 10 years

Yes mate. I did wonder, then I thought about it logically. Al Jazeera while owned and headquartered in Qatar has several oulets over the middle east, so the CIA would have had to put security teams at every entrance(even tradesmens ones) of every radio station in the Al Jazeera chain. Some of those outlets arent in US friendly countries.

So apart from the enormous manpower necessary to first off locate the courier by covering every single entrance to every single station building , there would have been serious risks to all covert surveillance teams operating on this op. Why? Because even US friendly countries in that area have plenty of people who would love to catch a member or even team from the CIA.

The tapes appeared at random intervals so therefore the CIA or other intelligence agencies would have had to have eyes on every doorway to every part of the Al Jazeera chain every minute of every day for months on end.

That would have been a non starter. Common sense really, appears to be in short supply in some locations.

Not only that but while they use the word courier, that doesnt mean it was one person taking the tape from Bin Liner and then handing over at a desk in Al Jazeera Main station, they could have been hand delivered but heres the funny thing they have a postal service in a lot of countries thoughout the world, even middle eastern ones.