[Livia]

To be honest I don't know much about the protest against the Centre so I can't comment on it. Inciting people to attack it if it is built though,is both stupid and dangerous.

It is the right of every American to worship the way he wants, and to build their religious centres anywhere they want. I just question the judgement of Muslims who would want to build their centre in such a provocative place. I can't even balance this with Muslims in NY standing up after 9/11 and distancing themselves from the attrocity. I remember visiting St Paul's Church near where the twin towers stood. The tiny, ancient church was remarkably the only building in the area not damaged by the towers falling. There were photos, cards, police and fire crew badges, flags and messages of support and solidarity from all over the world. I didn't see one in arabic, or from any person or organisation that would immediately suggest an Islamic connection, although I'm told there is a vast Muslim community in the USA. So deciding to go ahead with their Centre feels like a finger up to those who died and those who lost someone.

[MTVN]

I think that calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque" is misleading and makes it sound more disrespectful than it actually is. As far as I know it isnt even going to be a mosque at all, it's an Islamic Cultural Centre and as well as that it's not even being built on Ground Zero, it's a few minutes away from there in a different place

To say it is wrong would seem to imply a lack of distinction between normal Muslims and extremists; let's not forget that 300 Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks, it wasn't Islam that was responsible

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think that calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque" is misleading and makes it sound more disrespectful than it actually is. As far as I know it isnt even going to be a mosque at all, it's an Islamic Cultural Centre and as well as that it's not even being built on Ground Zero, it's a few minutes away from there in a different place

To say it is wrong would seem to imply a lack of distinction between normal Muslims and extremists; let's not forget that 300 Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks, it wasn't Islam that was responsible

I think the lack of distinction came when there was no backlash from honest, decent, hardworking Muslims against the attacks.

I feel like the majority of people are always trying to be fair; they're always trying to be understanding and see others' point of view and to find a way to compromise. Though this is not something that I see Muslims trying to do.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think the lack of distinction came when there was no backlash from honest, decent, hardworking Muslims against the attacks.

I feel like the majority of people are always trying to be fair; they're always trying to be understanding and see others' point of view and to find a way to compromise. Though this is not something that I see Muslims trying to do.

I think that is a little unfair, most Islamic organisations have always condemned terrorism, if you take a look at this site they have links to dozens of statements by various Muslim leaders/scholars/etc. condemning 9/11 and other attacks

Personally I feel there is constantly an unjustified pressure for Muslims to condemn and distance themselves from extremists, the vast majority do and are very happy to do so yet there always seems to be a perception that they're not doing enough, a criticism that doesn't seem to get levied on most other religions

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think that is a little unfair, most Islamic organisations have always condemned terrorism, if you take a look at this site they have links to dozens of statements by various Muslim leaders/scholars/etc. condemning 9/11 and other attacks

Personally I feel there is constantly an unjustified pressure for Muslims to condemn and distance themselves from extremists, the vast majority do and are very happy to do so yet there always seems to be a perception that they're not doing enough, a criticism that doesn't seem to get levied on most other religions

Thanks for the link MTVN, I'll look at it...

Most other religions don't get pressured to distance themselves from terrorism because Muslim fundamentalists are undoubtedly the biggest terror group today. And because of their political touchiness, people are a little scared of them and I think that's the way they like it.

I'd like to see more Muslims come forward, people like the gentleman in Birmingham whose son was killed in the riots recently. Although he was dealing with the crushing grief of losing his son, he was so eloquent and did his community a massive service by both what he said and the way he said it. We need more like him, to win the hearts and minds of people who have only a negative image of Muslims, an image perpetuated by acts such as wanting to build a mosque on (or near) the site of the twin towers.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thanks for the link MTVN, I'll look at it...

Most other religions don't get pressured to distance themselves from terrorism because Muslim fundamentalists are undoubtedly the biggest terror group today. And because of their political touchiness, people are a little scared of them and I think that's the way they like it.

I'd like to see more Muslims come forward, people like the gentleman in Birmingham whose son was killed in the riots recently. Although he was dealing with the crushing grief of losing his son, he was so eloquent and did his community a massive service by both what he said and the way he said it. We need more like him, to win the hearts and minds of people who have only a negative image of Muslims, an image perpetuated by acts such as wanting to build a mosque on (or near) the site of the twin towers.

I agree totally with this, his actions were totally humbling and a huge ambassador for the Muslim community. I have never met a Muslim that I don't hold in very high regard and feel I could learn much from. It saddens me that this is hardly ever portrayed in the media as peoples views are very unbalanced

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Thanks for the link MTVN, I'll look at it...

Most other religions don't get pressured to distance themselves from terrorism because Muslim fundamentalists are undoubtedly the biggest terror group today. And because of their political touchiness, people are a little scared of them and I think that's the way they like it.

I'd like to see more Muslims come forward, people like the gentleman in Birmingham whose son was killed in the riots recently. Although he was dealing with the crushing grief of losing his son, he was so eloquent and did his community a massive service by both what he said and the way he said it. We need more like him, to win the hearts and minds of people who have only a negative image of Muslims, an image perpetuated by acts such as wanting to build a mosque on (or near) the site of the twin towers.

Yeah that's a fair point but I honestly believe the perception that Muslims don't condemn terror is a myth and it also seems to imply a collective responsibility for the acts of extremists who are very much a minority in Islam

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah that's a fair point but I honestly believe the perception that Muslims don't condemn terror is a myth and it also seems to imply a collective responsibility for the acts of extremists who are very much a minority in Islam

It's probably a media thing, like Ammi suggests. The British media, as we all know, is hardly fair and unbiased.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

To be honest I don't know much about the protest against the Centre so I can't comment on it. Inciting people to attack it if it is built though,is both stupid and dangerous.

It is the right of every American to worship the way he wants, and to build their religious centres anywhere they want. I just question the judgement of Muslims who would want to build their centre in such a provocative place. I can't even balance this with Muslims in NY standing up after 9/11 and distancing themselves from the attrocity. I remember visiting St Paul's Church near where the twin towers stood. The tiny, ancient church was remarkably the only building in the area not damaged by the towers falling. There were photos, cards, police and fire crew badges, flags and messages of support and solidarity from all over the world. I didn't see one in arabic, or from any person or organisation that would immediately suggest an Islamic connection, although I'm told there is a vast Muslim community in the USA. So deciding to go ahead with their Centre feels like a finger up to those who died and those who lost someone.

It's my understanding that there is about an equal number of muslims in America as jews in America. I wonder then, if there are just as many muslims in America as jews, are they equally represented? I think there is definitely not as many muslims represented in American mainstream as jews.

I read an article recently that there are actually more anti-semetic attacks on jews in the US than islamophobic attacks in the US, but I know some news papers (the guardian) try to make it seem like Muslims are suffering much racism since 9/11 in the US,. SO i found it interesting that actually there are still more anti-jew attacks in the US than anti-muslim attacks.even after 9/11.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's my understanding that there is about an equal number of muslims in America as jews in America. I wonder then, if there are just as many muslims in America as jews, are they equally represented? I think there is definitely not as many muslims represented in American mainstream as jews.

I read an article recently that there are actually more anti-semetic attacks on jews in the US than islamophobic attacks in the US, but I know some news papers (the guardian) try to make it seem like Muslims are suffering much racism since 9/11 in the US,. SO i found it interesting that actually there are still more anti-jew attacks in the US than anti-muslim attacks.even after 9/11.

People attack what they don't understand, I guess.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

People attack what they don't understand, I guess.

Yes very much so.


That Site will go ahead a few paint bombs on it
and then it should go OK.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

People attack what they don't understand, I guess.

the way it's reported though, it seems to be drawn on political lines. It seems the left wing news tries to make muslims the victims, and the right wing press seems to make jews to be the victims. It doesn't make any sense to me especially because it's my understanding that most jewish Americans usually vote left wing politicians. (democrat).

I was glad to hear that in Israel they held protests against glenn beck, he is a prick.

It's all very confusing though. Why is the right wing in America defending jews when jews are usually left wing in America? It's all very counterintuitive.

[InOne]

On in 12 mins

Ch4

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the way it's reported though, it seems to be drawn on political lines. It seems the left wing news tries to make muslims the victims, and the right wing press seems to make jews to be the victims. It doesn't make any sense to me especially because it's my understanding that most jewish Americans usually vote left wing politicians. (democrat).

I was glad to hear that in Israel they held protests against glenn beck, he is a prick.

It's all very confusing though. Why is the right wing in America defending jews when jews are usually left wing in America? It's all very counterintuitive.

Wish I could throw some light on the whole left wing/right wing Jews in the USA thing, but I'd just be making it up. I feel sure that different groups are portrayed as victims whenever it suits the press agenda.

Re: Glenn Beck - I agree with your summing up.

[InOne]

2 mins, Happy watching ^_^

[Marc]

I'm being very lazy; is this still happening? What happened to the idea? Was it a silly rumour?

[InOne]

Well it seems a really small scale thing now. They're all arguing and they can't really get the money together, all the protesting really shook them. And I had a feeling it would be some eager convert behind it, they are always the worst

[keithafc]

Why do they want to build it new ground zero anyway?

[Grimnir]

mosque at ground zero would be a perfect place for radical fundamentalists to set up a bin laden shrine for his birthday

wonder if there would be any protests if that happened?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by keithafc

Why do they want to build it new ground zero anyway?

Because they can basically.

[arista]

Plus they own the land its on.