[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because racism couldn't lead to violence

Also the mere existence of the BNP and of other even more overtly racist, neo-Nazi parties in this country shows that free speech is indeed respected

If violence happens, then prosecute it. Don't prosecute something because it might allegedly lead to violence.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

If violence happens, then prosecute it. Don't prosecute something because it might allegedly lead to violence.

Ok, so you should be able to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre? After all you shouldn't prosecute something just because it might lead to violence right?

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Ok, so you should be able to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre? After all you shouldn't prosecute something just because it might lead to violence right?

This may astonish you, but there actually have been racists in history who were not violent. Just about everyone in the 19th century and before was racist so were all or most of them prone to violence? And there have been violent people who were not racist. Spouting racist opinions doesn't mean they are necessarily violent people at all.

Personally, I think it's very unlikely anyone would ever shout "fire" in a crowded theatre. Who would do that? It's a hypothetical scenario that is brought up by people who have reservations about unrestricted free speech.

If someone on the street corner began shouting about how great Communism is and how Stalin was a great man are we supposed to worry that this could potentially lead to violence as Stalin was one of the biggest murderers of the 20th century?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

This may astonish you, but there actually have been racists in history who were not violent. And there have been violent people who were not racist. Spouting racist opinions doesn't mean they are necessarily violent people at all.

Personally, I think it's very unlikely anyone would ever shout "fire" in a crowded theatre. Who would do that? It's a hypothetical scenario that is brought up by people who have reservations about unrestricted free speech.

If someone on the street corner began shouting about how great Communism is and how Stalin was a great man are we supposed to worry that this could potentially lead to violence as Stalin was one of the biggest murderers of the 20th century?

Well this may astonish you but in areas where the BNP have a strong presence racial violence has increased, that's no coincidence. In Barking and Dagenham, Epping Forest, and Chelmsley Wood for example, racially motivated violence more than doubled within a year of the BNP winning council seats there. Racism leads to violence, and it's naive to suggest otherwise and try and reduce it down to just "having an opinion"

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well this may astonish you but in areas where the BNP have a strong presence racial violence has increased, that's no coincidence. In Barking and Dagenham, Epping Forest, and Chelmsley Wood for example, racially motivated violence more than doubled within a year of the BNP winning council seats there. Racism leads to violence, and it's naive to suggest otherwise and try and reduce it down to just "having an opinion"

Just about everyone (and I mean, everyone) in the 19th century and before was a racist. Were they all or most of them prone to violence?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Just about everyone (and I mean, everyone) in the 19th century and before was a racist. Were they all or most of them prone to violence?

Except that comparison relies on the world today being exactly the same as it was back then which it clearly isn't

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Just about everyone (and I mean, everyone) in the 19th century and before was a racist. Were they all or most of them prone to violence?

Lots of them were.

You only need to look at some of the incidents where people tried to obtain any civil rights in a racist context.

Lets face it, the various races suffering the racism had very few rights and often simply kept their heads down and suffered.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Except that comparison relies on the world today being exactly the same as it was back then which it clearly isn't

Technology has changed a lot but human beings as emotional creatures have remained pretty much unchanged.

A lot of people are racist. I'd argue the majority of people are racist even today. But people are good at keeping their thoughts to themselves and not saying something unpopular out of fear they will be ostrasized. The racists who are violent people usually don't care if it's known that they are racist and are vocal in their opinions which is propably why you think racists are by their nature violent people.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Technology has changed a lot but human beings as emotional creatures have remained pretty much unchanged.

A lot of people are racist. I'd argue the majority of people are racist even today. But people are good at keeping their thoughts to themselves and not saying something unpopular out of fear they will be ostrasized. The racists who are violent people usually don't care if it's known that they are racist and are vocal in their opinions which is propably why you think racists are by their nature violent people.

Not at all, attitudes have changed hugely from when other races were considered to be inherently backward and inferior, and impinging on the civilisation of the West. And yes actually I would say racists in the 19th century were prone to violence because they used it as a tool of oppression.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not at all, attitudes have changed hugely from when other races were considered to be inherently backward and inferior, and impinging on the civilisation of the West. And yes actually I would say racists in the 19th century were prone to violence because they used it as a tool of oppression.

I completely agree with you MTVN.

Regarding racism in previous centuries, let's not forget that if it wasn't for a group of white men - who had all the power - realising that the tyranny of slavery was abhorrent, it would have gone on for a lot longer.