[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Livia if you post untruths people will call you out on them, whether you respond or not is up to you.
The lib dems have as part of the coalition agreement shelved some of their policies yes...
To form a joint government that was essential the conservatives were obliged to do the same.
If it were not for the liberal ministers and whisle blowers the tories would be getting away with much more than they are currently we both know that.

And for the record nobody knows who coined that phrase, it and variants of it are very inspiring though so I see it's relevance to the topic.

[Livia]

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...

Fine...
Did I say it was? If it takes this inspiring message to a new audience then who cares?
LOL

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

so you think its right to call anyone who disagrees with you, a bigot? You think caling millions of people bigots is the way to show you have balls and win elections? Grow up.

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Fine...
Did I say it was? If it takes this inspiring message to a new audience then who cares?
LOL

Plan B has misquoted it so doesn't make as much sense as Malcolm X's version, but if you're happy to pass on a watered down version... like you say, who cares?

Putting you back on ignore now. Bye.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Plan B has misquoted it so doesn't make as much sense as Malcolm X's version, but if you're happy to pass on a watered down version... like you say, who cares?

Putting you back on ignore now. Bye.

It makes perfect sense livia and as I said Malcolm X only quoted someone else, lets not get all pedantic.
Bye

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kizzy

It makes perfect sense livia and as I said Malcolm X only quoted someone else, lets not get all pedantic.
Bye

it was pedantic of you to bring it up to begin with.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

it was pedantic of you to bring it up to begin with.

No it was not, it was an observation alex... To labour the same point is the definition of pedantic to me. Feel free to discuss it for the next few hours if you wish...

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kizzy

No it was not, it was an observation alex... To labour the same point is the definition of pedantic to me. Feel free to discuss it for the next few hours if you wish...

squabbling over a malcom X quote in a thread about Nick Clegg's gay marriage statement, yes that was pedantic. The thread is about the LIb Dems and Gay marriage. You're the one making pedantic posts about Livia's Malcom X post, which the sentiment of Livia's quote was on topic, you're trying to debate who first said it, is in fact pedantic. Who care's who said something similar first? she was quoting Malcolm X and it was an accurate quote, so you were the one being pedantic.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

Firstly gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages. so that argument over legal rights is over.

If some people believe it is wrong for men and men to have homosexual sex, thats their opinion, which they are entitled to, even if that opinion is offensive to you or anyone else. If they verbally or physically abuse gay people, then that is bigotry. You need to sort these issues out in your own mind before ranting at people calling them bigots simply because they have different opinions. To wrongly call someone a bigot is in fact bigotry too. So its a fine line. I have read quotes on here stating, straight men should be burned, now that is bigotry. So its important we all know where the line is being opinion and bigotry or law breaking. If we can find that line and respect it, without resorting to abuse and real bigotry , then I assure you this issue will move forward far quicker.

as it stands gay couples have all the legal rights now as hetresexual couples and I for one am delighted with that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

squabbling over a malcom X quote in a thread about Nick Clegg's gay marriage statement, yes that was pedantic. The thread is about the LIb Dems and Gay marriage. You're the one making pedantic posts about Livia's Malcom X post, which the sentiment of Livia's quote was on topic, you're trying to debate who first said it, is in fact pedantic. Who care's who said something similar first? she was quoting Malcolm X and it was an accurate quote, so you were the one being pedantic.

Oh... Do you think she didn't know it was in my sig?...Theres an interesting thought thanks alex!
I have made my point in this thread and will only discuss issues surrounding the topic from now on. Cheers mate.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

Gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages.

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Oh... Do you think she didn't know it was in my sig?...Theres an interesting thought thanks alex!
I have made my point in this thread and will only discuss issues surrounding the topic from now on. Cheers mate.

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

Alex you poor deprived child...here
http://www.time4planb.co.uk/lyrics/l...way-ft-raekwon

Youtube video

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

and gay people have suffered all of those same indignities and abuses. do you deny that? It is absolutely true to compare the 2 situations, the only differnce being that black people have enjoyed equal rights for many decades now. Gay people still suffer these indignities and abuses without any protection under the law. There is no more institutional discrimination against blacks, there is absolutely still institutional discrimination against gays. So you are right that they cannot be compared anymore, gay people are absolutely suffering more than blacks. but historically, in the context of segregation, it is absolutely a fair comparison.

Blacks have had it easy compared to gays though. There can be no doubt that gays have been far more oppressed than blacks.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

and gay people have suffered all of those same indignities and abuses. do you deny that? It is absolutely true to compare the 2 situations, the only differnce being that black people have enjoyed equal rights for many decades now. Gay people still suffer these indignities and abuses without any protection under the law. There is no more institutional discrimination against blacks, there is absolutely still institutional discrimination against gays. So you are right that they cannot be compared anymore, gay people are absolutely suffering more than blacks. but historically, in the context of segregation, it is absolutely a fair comparison.

Blacks have had it easy compared to gays though. There can be no doubt that gays have been far more oppressed than blacks.

Gay people have all the rights of hetrosexual people. No gays are being burned, no gays are banned from any restaurants, buses, its illegal to abuse gay people physically or verbally. Married gay couples have the same legal rights as married hetrosexual couples. so your argument is about 50 years out of date.

Lets forget creating hysterical diviision just to create a false argument. lets celebrate the fact gay people now have equal legal rights and live in peace and harmony

Meanwhile youre talent and energy needs now to change to other areas of discrimination, inequality and corruption that causes enormous pain , misery and deaths of thousands in our own nation

corrupt rules banning the NHS from claiming on private health insurance to cover their multi billion health care costs

the fact the has the highest abortion rates of all western democracies

the fact we are stil entangled in illegal wars

the fact prisoners are treated far better and have more money spent on them per head than do law abding tax paying old age pensioners

the fact the gap between rich and poor is bigger now than it was in the days of charles dickens oliver twist. this means in england/uk europe and across the world, we see even greater deprivation , starvation, exploitation than ever before.

the fact disabled people cannot even get access still to most buildings, including churches, shops, council buildings, museums, pubs, public toilets etc
this means they cant even attend weddings and funerals in comfort. pathetic.
how on earth do we expect them to find jobs and live full lives?

the fact 10000s times more is spent on weopanry and war per person, than is spent on feeding and clothing the starving.

and the fact male suicides worldwide are at their highest ever and the gap isgrowing, mainly on the back of industrial collapse, biased marital and family law, resulting in men / fathers losing their homes, their wives their children, their live savings all at the same time

Its hard to acept when the fight has gone on, but gay people have won their fight, they have equal rights, celebrate it, enjoy it, now move on and use your talent and energy for the other crazy imbalances in the world! you have the talent, use it! Theres nothing so tragic as wasted talent!

[lostalex]

^this post proves that your username is meant to be ironic.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...

I herd it first on americas next top model .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

For the sake of clarity... I hadn't noticed it either because I have that poster on ignore. It was only that someone pointed out to me that she'd quoted my post I noticed a version of the quote was in her sig. Coincidence... although I'm sure it'll be viewed as something other than that.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

^this post proves that your username is meant to be ironic.

it does nothing of the kind, your response ignores al the issues , all the points and instead chooses to be shallow and petty. Very disappointing, profoundly insincere.

[Redway]

What Alex says.

Anyway, I'm off to have a joint. I'll deal with the truth's B.S. tomorrow.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

What Alex says. the truth doesn't understand anything about civil rights and uses that nono smilry every time someone quotes the guy.

This sentence means nothing!

[Redway]

Originally Posted by the truth

This sentence means nothing!

Funny that as the last word there describes profoundly what's in your head.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Absolutely Livia,gutless and untrustworthy is exactly the words to use as to them now.