[PrincessIona]

Originally Posted by Livia

And all the others in there are so sweet and nice and well-balanced. I mean, Lee's treatment of women has been exemplary, hasn't it.

Yes, Lee treats women badly too but we are discussing Jim here, and Lees behaviour although horrible doesn't have anything to do with Jim

[Livia]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

Yes, Lee treats women badly too but we are discussing Jim here, and Lees behaviour although horrible doesn't have anything to do with Jim

Essentially, what you're saying is, even if someone changes, and shows themselves to be changed, they should just continue to be castigated for their past crimes and misdeeds forever.

[PrincessIona]

Originally Posted by Livia

Essentially, what you're saying is, even if someone changes, and shows themselves to be changed, they should just continue to be castigated for their past crimes and misdeeds forever.

No, what I'm saying is I don't believe he has changed. I had little knowledge of him before he went in and has never watched him on TV before. In my eyes, he is a horrible man - I base this on what I've seen in the house, and what I've seen of him makes me believe that the various stories about him are true.

I think he is trying to sugar coat his behaviour in the house but I when I watch him I see that he is horrible

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

No, what I'm saying is I don't believe he has changed. I had little knowledge of him before he went in and has never watched him on TV before. In my eyes, he is a horrible man - I base this on what I've seen in the house, and what I've seen of him makes me believe that the various stories about him are true.

I think he is trying to sugar coat his behaviour in the house but I when I watch him I see that he is horrible

You must be watching a different show to me.I haven't seen Jim being horrible to anyone.

[PrincessIona]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why did his comments about nuclear bombs offend you?

I'm strongly against nuclear weapons for many reasons including the environmental impact and I find it ignorant that someone would think that a country having nuclear weapons keeps the peace.

Originally Posted by Bojangles

You must be watching a different show to me.I haven't seen Jim being horrible to anyone.

I don't think he has been horrible to anyone on the show to be honest and I haven't said that he has, but I think he is a horrible man - it's hard to explain but he is the type of man that I cannot stand. There is something I see in him which I have seen in the many arrogant, sexist, abusive, women hating men I have had the misfortune of meeting

[Livia]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

I'm strongly against nuclear weapons for many reasons including the environmental impact and I find it ignorant that someone would think that a country having nuclear weapons keeps the peace.

Then I suggest half the country is going to offend you.

[PrincessIona]

Originally Posted by Livia

Then I suggest half the country is going to offend you.

Maybe offended was the wrong word for me to use, fortunately I have never met anyone that thinks nuclear bombs are good!

[jet]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

I'm strongly against nuclear weapons for many reasons including the environmental impact and I find it ignorant that someone would think that a country having nuclear weapons keeps the peace.




I don't think he has been horrible to anyone on the show to be honest and I haven't said that he has, but I think he is a horrible man - it's hard to explain but he is the type of man that I cannot stand. There is something I see in him which I have seen in the many arrogant, sexist, abusive, women hating men I have had the misfortune of meeting

Exactly. I get the same feeling of discomfort when I see him. It's hard to explain.

[PrincessIona]

Originally Posted by jet

Exactly. I get the same feeling of discomfort when I see him. It's hard to explain.

Yes, very hard to explain with words but it's definitely there

[Kazanne]

[QUOTE=PrincessIona;6606923]I'm strongly against nuclear weapons for many reasons including the environmental impact and I find it ignorant that someone would think that a country having nuclear weapons keeps the peace.




So ,you think it's better for us to sit back with no defense and be a sitting duck? What about the environmental impact the fumes from cars make and industry,the spillage into our waters,If we get hit by a nuclear weapon because we have no defense there will be no environment to speak of.

[PrincessIona]

[QUOTE=Kazanne;6606936]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

I'm strongly against nuclear weapons for many reasons including the environmental impact and I find it ignorant that someone would think that a country having nuclear weapons keeps the peace.









So ,you think it's better for us to sit back with no defense and be a sitting duck? What about the environmental impact the fumes from cars make and industry,the spillage into our waters,If we get hit by a nuclear weapon because we have no defense there will be no environment to speak of.

I'm not saying countries shouldn't have defences, I just don't think nuclear bombs are the right ones to have.

We can't avoid everything that's bad for the environment, and I'm not against nuclear power because of its practicalities outweigh negative impact.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by PrincessIona

No, what I'm saying is I don't believe he has changed. I had little knowledge of him before he went in and has never watched him on TV before. In my eyes, he is a horrible man - I base this on what I've seen in the house, and what I've seen of him makes me believe that the various stories about him are true.

I think he is trying to sugar coat his behaviour in the house but I when I watch him I see that he is horrible

There is no doubt that most of the stories in his past are true, but that's not the question, is it. It's about whether or not he's changed, and if he has, should we still be beating him up for his past?

You're entitled to believe he hasn't changed. I think the majority are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though, most of us not having picked up a vibe through our telly screen as you have claimed.

I was against him going in, I've never been a fan, quite the reverse... but when he claimed to have got a handle on his life I was willing to see if that was true.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Livia

Essentially, what you're saying is, even if someone changes, and shows themselves to be changed, they should just continue to be castigated for their past crimes and misdeeds forever.

Where is the evidence he has changed? From a week on a reality show where he is being viewed by the nation? He's hardly going to punch a women in the house, is he, or call Ollie a part time shirt lifter? He's going to try to redeem himself and act the nice lad, isn't he?
There is nothing to say he has changed or he hasn't changed. So I'm going on what I have read, his passive aggressiveness in the house and my own gut feelings.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jet

Where is the evidence he has changed? From a week on a reality show where he is being viewed by the nation? He's hardly going to punch a women in the house, is he, or call Ollie a part time shirt lifter? He's going to try to redeem himself and act the nice lad, isn't he?
There is nothing to say he has changed or he hasn't changed. So I'm going on what I have read, his passive aggressiveness in the house and my own gut feelings.

Evidence? What kind of evidence do you suggest someone can submit in order to prove they have changed? That's just silly. He himself has claimed to have changed. We can't ask for evidence other than he proves he has changed by his actions.

You don't like him. That's fine... I don't see why you're getting all bent out of shape because some people are willing to let him demonstrate that he has changed rather than believe no one can ever change.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Livia

Evidence? What kind of evidence do you suggest someone can submit in order to prove they have changed? That's just silly. He himself has claimed to have changed. We can't ask for evidence other than he proves he has changed by his actions.

You don't like him. That's fine... I don't see why you're getting all bent out of shape because some people are willing to let him demonstrate that he has changed rather than believe no one can ever change.

Who's getting bent out of shape? I'm passing the time on a message board.
When you diagnosed Liz Jones with all the mental problems you assert she suffers from I didn't jump on you for your opinion. I'm entitled to think he hasn't changed just as you are entitled to say awful things about Liz and others with no evidence to back them up.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jet

Who's getting bent out of shape? I'm passing the time on a message board.
When you diagnosed Liz Jones with all the mental problems you assert she suffers from I didn't jump on you for your opinion. I'm entitled to think he hasn't changed just as you are entitled to say awful things about Liz and others with no evidence to back them up.

Well firstly, I said she was neurotic and a bit of a psycho. I wasn't making a diagnosis, I was speaking as I found because the real difference here is that I've met Liz Jones several times and I'm good friends with someone who knows her very well. I've not based my opinion on a Google search.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well firstly, I said she was neurotic and a bit of a psycho. I wasn't making a diagnosis, I was speaking as I found because the real difference here is that I've met Liz Jones several times and I'm good friends with someone who knows her very well. I've not based my opinion on a Google search.

You said she was neurotic, paranoid and a 'F'ing' psycho. So are you saying she acted that way right in front of you (if so, why not expand on that) or are you basing this on hearsay from a friend who might just not like her. That's not evidence.
Jim Davidson is a self - confessed wife beater. ITV had to apologize for his inappropriate comments towards a gay person. These things are facts.

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by jet

Where is the evidence he has changed? From a week on a reality show where he is being viewed by the nation? He's hardly going to punch a women in the house, is he, or call Ollie a part time shirt lifter? He's going to try to redeem himself and act the nice lad, isn't he?
There is nothing to say he has changed or he hasn't changed. So I'm going on what I have read, his passive aggressiveness in the house and my own gut feelings.

What makes you such an expert in these matters?

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by jet

Where is the evidence he has changed? From a week on a reality show where he is being viewed by the nation? He's hardly going to punch a women in the house, is he, or call Ollie a part time shirt lifter? He's going to try to redeem himself and act the nice lad, isn't he?
There is nothing to say he has changed or he hasn't changed. So I'm going on what I have read, his passive aggressiveness in the house and my own gut feelings.

Wow, so you base your entire opinion of someone (who you apparently had no idea about) on what a trashy tabloid said about him 10 years ago?!? Despite actually seeing the man as he is now in the Big Brother house?! Judgemental much...

And despite him showing no signs at all of being a wife beating, homophobic bully you are still going to label him as such?