[Kizzy]

You would have thought though that she would be better placed than anyone to judge how this could affect a child..
And in essence be more aware of the destruction and heartbreak that addiction and possible overdose could bring to her family.

In that sense she is selfish to even put herself in a position where there was a possibility that history could repeat itself.
She had the money and the opportunity to reach out and get any help available, but chose not to for whatever reason.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Until somebody loses their parent in such a way that Peaches lost hers (and at such a young age too), I don't think it's fair to judge their actions so harshly.. We are all different and all react differently, had I (God forbid) lost my mother or was to lose my mother, especially in a similar circumstance, I don't even wish to think about how my life would be affected. The whole story is just a really tragic one.

Originally Posted by Jake.

I don't understand the 'selfish' claims either.. When somebody is in that state, they aren't in the right frame of mind to even begin to consider their own actions.. Going through certain things can really mess people up, it just depends on your mindset and how you deal with things.. Attention should be placed towards helping more people like this so that fewer lives are lost and less families are broken rather than lambasting them.

This. No one's selfish for being genuinely unwell.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You would have thought though that she would be better placed than anyone to judge how this could affect a child..
And in essence be more aware of the destruction and heartbreak that addiction and possible overdose could bring to her family.

In that sense she is selfish to even put herself in a position where there was a possibility that history could repeat itself.
She had the money and the opportunity to reach out and get any help available, but chose not to for whatever reason.

You can't always reason with things like that, though. It's nothing something you'd be able to get your head around unless you've been in that position yourself. The fact that she had the resources doesn't mean that she could've chosen to stop being a junkie if she wanted to. No one chooses to be an addict. And if you think otherwise then clearly you need to do some research.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

You can't always reason with things like that, though. It's nothing something you'd be able to get your head around unless you've been in that position yourself. The fact that she had the resources doesn't mean that she could've chosen to stop being a junkie if she wanted to. No one chooses to be an addict. And if you think otherwise then clearly you need to do some research.

wrong. people who are drug takers, who have kids need to forsee the fact they are putting their kids in danger and act to ensure they can avoid that. as for this uber liberal claptrap about never treating junkies like criminals and only to embrace them all...what about the crimes people commit under the influence of drugs, the destruction of families, of communities, the destruction of the nhs which spends trillions on drink and drugs

sometimes tough love is whats needed.its the over liberal attitude thats seen drug use rise to amongst the highest per capita in the world in the uk. you need to take your own advice and research what damage this liberal attitude to drugs has done to the uk. what its contributed to our enormous drug use, drug related crime, drug pushing, violence, theft, broken homes, broken communities etc etc

while we are spending billions more on drugs, where does this funding come from? who else loses out on funding in order that we spend more on helping drug pushers and drug takers. the pot of money , resources and staff is limited. so someone has to lose out to finance your , lets help the junkies more campaign. is this 1 reason why so many people, often salt of the eart harmless hard working law abiding citizens , are left to rot in hospitals and in homes. they seem to get less sympathy and less attention and less spent on them per head. drug takers and drug pushers, get relative luxury. old vulnerable people are likely to be fed, clothed and quenched. they even get to share 1 tv set between a whole load of them. they get so very little for their lifetime of work and duty.

if we follow your overall mantra where does it lead beyond the disaster we now have? if adrug user beats an old woman and steals her money and accidentally kills her or leaves her in a coma. our sympathy is with the criminal? he couldnt help it could he? hes from a poor background, he has an addictive personality etc he doesnt belong in prison. meanwhile the forgotten old lady has been forgotten by the system....no doubt one reason the nhs is falling apart is that the staff are abused by those under the influence of drink and drugs.

i notice how you come on this thread with the bleeding heart liberal argument purported by russell brand....yet another thread which points out the mass corruption, systematic abuse in nhs hospitals, you make no contribution at all....I would suggest this shows your own priorities are utterly confused.

ive sat next to an old lady suffering a heart attack as the nurses ignored her all night only to deal with screaming drunken junkie kids, simply because they felt intimidated and the kids screamed louder. this is the end result of your uber liberal demands. utter ammoral carnage, the weak ignored and walked over left to die, the drug taking attention seeking junkies sucking up the funding and the services.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by the truth

wrong. people who are drug takers, who have kids need to forsee the fact they are putting their kids in danger and act to ensure they can avoid that. as for this uber liberal claptrap about never treating junkies like criminals and only to embrace them all...what about the crimes people commit under the influence of drugs, the destruction of families, of communities, the destruction of the nhs which spends trillions on drink and drugs

sometimes tough love is whats needed.its the over liberal attitude thats seen drug use rise to amongst the highest per capita in the world in the uk. you need to take your own advice and research what damage this liberal attitude to drugs has done to the uk. what its contributed to our enormous drug use, drug related crime, drug pushing, violence, theft, broken homes, broken communities etc etc

while we are spending billions more on drugs, where does this funding come from? who else loses out on funding in order that we spend more on helping drug pushers and drug takers. the pot of money , resources and staff is limited. so someone has to lose out to finance your , lets help the junkies more campaign. is this 1 reason why so many people, often salt of the eart harmless hard working law abiding citizens , are left to rot in hospitals and in homes. they seem to get less sympathy and less attention and less spent on them per head. drug takers and drug pushers, get relative luxury. old vulnerable people are likely to be fed, clothed and quenched. they even get to share 1 tv set between a whole load of them. they get so very little for their lifetime of work and duty.

if we follow your overall mantra where does it lead beyond the disaster we now have? if adrug user beats an old woman and steals her money and accidentally kills her or leaves her in a coma. our sympathy is with the criminal? he couldnt help it could he? hes from a poor background, he has an addictive personality etc he doesnt belong in prison. meanwhile the forgotten old lady has been forgotten by the system....no doubt one reason the nhs is falling apart is that the staff are abused by those under the influence of drink and drugs.

i notice how you come on this thread with the bleeding heart liberal argument purported by russell brand....yet another thread which points out the mass corruption, systematic abuse in nhs hospitals, you make no contribution at all....I would suggest this shows your own priorities are utterly confused.

ive sat next to an old lady suffering a heart attack as the nurses ignored her all night only to deal with screaming drunken junkie kids, simply because they felt intimidated and the kids screamed louder. this is the end result of your uber liberal demands. utter ammoral carnage, the weak ignored and walked over left to die, the drug taking attention seeking junkies sucking up the funding and the services.

I don't even know where to start with that disjointed mess of a post but at least get your own priorities in check before you call others confused.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don't even know where to start with that disjointed mess of a post but at least get your own priorities in check before you call others confused.

because I destroyed your argument.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by the truth

because I destroyed your argument.

Nope.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

Nope.

another pitiful response as was your non argument

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

You can't always reason with things like that, though. It's nothing something you'd be able to get your head around unless you've been in that position yourself. The fact that she had the resources doesn't mean that she could've chosen to stop being a junkie if she wanted to. No one chooses to be an addict. And if you think otherwise then clearly you need to do some research.

Sorry.. Are you suggesting she didn't know it was addictive?
I have been in that position and I chose to put myself in it.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sorry.. Are you suggesting she didn't know it was addictive?
I have been in that position and I chose to put myself in it.

I think you know full well I didn't mean it like that. Obviously anyone with half a brain cell knows about the dangers of heroin but judgement can be so impaired that people are unable to see the consequences of their actions, or can't weigh them up into perspective. So it's not as clear-cut as you're making it out to be.

And well that's you. Different people cope in different ways and what disgusts you or whatever may attract another person.

I'm not saying I don't have an immense amount of sympathy for everyone involved (especially the children), but - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - we don't know the full story right now or what drove her to take hard drugs etc. So it's wrong that people are so quick to jump on the "what a selfish disgusting mother' bandwagon quite so soon.

Like I've said, drug addiction is an illness so it's not as clear-cut as getting a grip or whatever. At all.

[Ammi]

..I think people can often become victims of the very thing that has hurt them in their lives, it seems quite common..yes it is selfish, but people in dark places and addicts are often incapable of being anything other than selfish because they have no coping abilities in life...it's always strange when someone who seems on the outside to be coping as in she cared for her children and was a mother to them etc could be incapable of thinking of them more than what she was doing to herself but I guess unless you have been in that place that she was then you can't really understand it...

..I know someone in slightly different circumstances who was bi-polar and an alcoholic and she took her own life and left two young children ..I don't know what brought her to that at the second she did it or the time just before she did it and was focused on doing it but I do know that she loved her children, they were her life and she was an amazing mother...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Redway

I think you know full well I didn't mean it like that. Obviously anyone with half a brain cell knows about the dangers of heroin but judgement can be so impaired that people are unable to see the consequences of their actions, or can't weigh them up into perspective. So it's not as clear-cut as you're making it out to be.

And well that's you. Different people cope in different ways and what disgusts you or whatever may attract another person.

I'm not saying I don't have an immense amount of sympathy for everyone involved (especially the children), but - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - we don't know the full story right now or what drove her to take hard drugs etc. So it's wrong that people are so quick to jump on the "what a selfish disgusting mother' bandwagon quite so soon.

Like I've said, drug addiction is an illness so it's not as clear-cut as getting a grip or whatever. At all.

If I knew I wouldn't have asked would I?
I haven't made anything clear cut just offered my take on the situation redway, I know addiction is an illness not once did I suggest it wasn't...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If I knew I wouldn't have asked would I?
I haven't made anything clear cut just offered my take on the situation redway, I know addiction is an illness not once did I suggest it wasn't...

if its an incurable illness and these junkies are powerless to put down the drugs, how come many people have the strength of character to get off this poison and others dont?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

if its an incurable illness and these junkies are powerless to put down the drugs, how come many people have the strength of character to get off this poison and others dont?

Addiction alters both your body and your brain chemistry ergo it becomes an illness that requires complex treatment.
I can't answer why some manage to successfully kick their addictions and some can't unfortunately.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I think some people just can't cope with life sadly. They aren't strong enough and that is so sad.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I think some people just can't cope with life sadly. They aren't strong enough and that is so sad.

sad for the victims of their crimes, their thefts, their violence, their destruction of families