[Ninastar]

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

IMO the fact that it is happening now with Islam makes the history of Christianity more relevant, it allows us to better understand Islamic extremism instead of treating it as something completely different and alien to our own past. I'm not even saying that to try and hate on Christianity or to try and defend Islam either, I just think it's all worth bearing in mind. It's not even all necessarily about the bad things that have been done in Christianity's name, it's more about the mindset of having such a strong religious zeal that it guides - and is used to justify - everything you do. I know a lot of people like to say that IS/Al Qaeda etc. aren't real Muslims, don't really care about Islam, just use it as an excuse etc. but I don't really agree with that. It might be the case for a lot of them that they are just on a power trip, but we shouldn't separate their religion from their cause any more than we should separate Christianity from the Inquisition, the wars of religion etc.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MTVN

IMO the fact that it is happening now with Islam makes the history of Christianity more relevant, it allows us to better understand Islamic extremism instead of treating it as something completely different and alien to our own past. I'm not even saying that to try and hate on Christianity or to try and defend Islam either, I just think it's all worth bearing in mind. It's not even all necessarily about the bad things that have been done in Christianity's name, it's more about the mindset of having such a strong religious zeal that it guides - and is used to justify - everything you do. I know a lot of people like to say that IS/Al Qaeda etc. aren't real Muslims, don't really care about Islam, just use it as an excuse etc. but I don't really agree with that. It might be the case for a lot of them that they are just on a power trip, but we shouldn't separate their religion from their cause any more than we should separate Christianity from the Inquisition, the wars of religion etc.

this is all done in the name of islam. its a massive problem now worldwide...obamas intentions are generally good , hes trying to take the sting out of it all but but his speech and timing was awful here....he might as well talk about the queen of England being responsible for the endless wars...its ancient history. this radical islam is here and now and its worldwide

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

spot on , glad you saw past the apologists

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

That's only the case if you're saying "Christians and Muslims are the same in many ways" as a way of lessening the blame on Islam / making it seem like it's OK because "one day they'll be fine". That's not my stance at all though. Rather, I think that religion itself is to blame. I lump all of them together and am perfectly comfortable doing so... And pointing out how similar other religions have been in the past is more of a justification for this action of combining, and condemning, all religion.

Do you really, honestly think that it's impossible that Christianity will ever cycle back around to violent action? What if rather than having moved past it, Christianity is simply not in a "violent phase" right now? It might well be again in a few hundred years after the inevitable downfall of Western capitalism. Christian terrorist organisations are by no means outside of the realms of realistic possibility. There are a few, albeit small, examples of such in the world already. In recent history there have been obvious examples :what were the KKK, if not white Christian terrorists?

To state that all of Christianity has now moved beyond that, and will never go back there, is nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Because people with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things. Anyone who can take a step back from religious belief and take a good look at it can appreciate that every last one of them is a "loopy cult", and that the malleable nature of religious dogma means that anyone devoutly religious - in any religion - is inherently unpredictable and dangerous.

6 million (!!!) people turned up in a park to see the Pope recently. A huge percentage of those will have been very passionate Christians. Are we expected to believe that, if the Vatican and the Pope were to suddenly demand that they take up arms against (whoever), huge numbers of those people wouldn't willingly, even happily, do so in the name of their religion (Christianity)? Of course they would. Many of those people would blindly follow the Pope into whatever jihad he could dream up. Just as dangerous as any Muslim following any mad cleric.

He hasn't done so but it's just an example of how any religion can be used for violent means. IF he wanted to, IF he suddenly snapped or IF other political forces somehow took covert control of the Vatican, that one man could turn millions of those "peaceful christians" into remorseless killers over night. I guarantee it.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's only the case if you're saying "Christians and Muslims are the same in many ways" as a way of lessening the blame on Islam / making it seem like it's OK because "one day they'll be fine". That's not my stance at all though. Rather, I think that religion itself is to blame. I lump all of them together and am perfectly comfortable doing so... And pointing out how similar other religions have been in the past is more of a justification for this action of combining, and condemning, all religion.

Do you really, honestly think that it's impossible that Christianity will ever cycle back around to violent action? What if rather than having moved past it, Christianity is simply not in a "violent phase" right now? It might well be again in a few hundred years after the inevitable downfall of Western capitalism. Christian terrorist organisations are by no means outside of the realms of realistic possibility. There are a few, albeit small, examples of such in the world already. In recent history there have been obvious examples :what were the KKK, if not white Christian terrorists?

To state that all of Christianity has now moved beyond that, and will never go back there, is nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Because people with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things. Anyone who can take a step back from religious belief and take a good look at it can appreciate that every last one of them is a "loopy cult", and that the malleable nature of religious dogma means that anyone devoutly religious - in any religion - is inherently unpredictable and dangerous.

6 million (!!!) people turned up in a park to see the Pope recently. A huge percentage of those will have been very passionate Christians. Are we expected to believe that, if the Vatican and the Pope were to suddenly demand that they take up arms against (whoever), huge numbers of those people wouldn't willingly, even happily, do so in the name of their religion (Christianity)? Of course they would. Many of those people would blindly follow the Pope into whatever jihad he could dream up. Just as dangerous as any Muslim following any mad cleric.

He hasn't done so but it's just an example of how any religion can be used for violent means. IF he wanted to, IF he suddenly snapped or IF other political forces somehow took covert control of the Vatican, that one man could turn millions of those "peaceful christians" into remorseless killers over night. I guarantee it.

Pure conjecture full of what, ifs and buts. Islam is a problem now which is what we need to focus on, not what others might do one day.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Pure conjecture full of what, ifs and buts. Islam is a problem now which is what we need to focus on, not what others might do one day.

I realise this but I was only illustrating a point. I am not saying that the issue doesn't need to be tackled here and now. Religion is a problem that would be much more easily focussed on by realising what it is and appropriately lumping it into one category to be tackled instead of endlessly splitting hairs over which ones are "good", and which ones are "bad", and which branches of each are better than the others, and which are the best churches within those branches, and ... only for the same issues to arise again in a few generations under a different banner. If EVERYONE would just stop arguing over whose unicorns are the fastest, we'd be more than half way there.

The only really important part of my previous post is this:

"People with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things."

Islam / Christianity / whatever .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I ..."People with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things."

Islam / Christianity / whatever .

People with no religious beliefs are also prone to do irrational things, so...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

People with no religious beliefs are also prone to do irrational things, so...

Not all irrational belief systems are religious. Does it then follow that religious belief systems are not irrational? I don't think so, personally.

I certainly don't think that religion is the root of all of the world's problems or that there would never again be any senseless massacre without religion... but I think it would certainly be a start.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not all irrational belief systems are religious. Does it then follow that religious belief systems are not irrational? I don't think so, personally.

I certainly don't think that religion is the root of all of the world's problems or that there would never again be any senseless massacre without religion... but I think it would certainly be a start.

start of what? are you planning to destroy all of the tens of thousands of Christian based laws than are the bedrock of western civilization too? what exactly was it that Christ said that you hate so much?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not all irrational belief systems are religious. Does it then follow that religious belief systems are not irrational? I don't think so, personally.

I certainly don't think that religion is the root of all of the world's problems or that there would never again be any senseless massacre without religion... but I think it would certainly be a start.

Some people are good, some people are bad. That's the bottom line. Most people are not extremists, most people don't want to kill other people because they don't share their beliefs. It's an infinitesimally small percentage, just like it's an infinitesimally small percentage of non-religious people who are violent psychopaths. For every act of violence carried out by religious people, there will be at least one and probably many more acts of kindness and compassion. So I don't agree that by having no religion the world would be a better place. All you'd be doing is taking away people's legitimate right to worship in their own way because you yourself have no faith.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

People with no religious beliefs are also prone to do irrational things, so...

Where in the bible does it say that?...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where in the bible does it say that?...

Just under where it says "People with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things."