[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"I can't understand the violence" Period.

Now we're ALL happy.

I'll speak for myself fanks.

[empire]

the left wing have no understanding, in how to balance the books, attacking carswell for wanting to stop large immigration, in truth carswell is spot on in every thing he says, owen jones is another toss pot, who in truth can't admit that labour is a middle class party now, ukip our not a racist party either, they are not left wing or right wing either, I think they are a centrist party, that have both labour and tory ideology, the left wing in todays britain, have no path but to throw treason, into their hats,

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by empire

the left wing have no understanding, in how to balance the books, attacking carswell for wanting to stop large immigration, in truth carswell is spot on in every thing he says, owen jones is another toss pot, who in truth can't admit that labour is a middle class party now, ukip our not a racist party either, they are not left wing or right wing either, I think they are a centrist party, that have both labour and tory ideology, the left wing in todays britain, have no path but to throw treason, into their hats,

You clearly also have no understanding of how to balance the books either.

To even out thee deficit, you have two (or possibly three) solutions:

a) to make cuts to public services and reduce overall spending
b) to temporarily raise taxes on the richest until an economic recovery is significant enough for them to be lowered again
c) a mixture of the two.

I don't know about you, but B seems definitely like the most moral solution. It is not like we are going to send billionaires into poverty by meaning they have to pay an extra 5-10% in tax of their profits for a few years. But cutting public services ultimately will hit the poorest the most, and the tories did this all while lowering the tax of the richest which led to more cuts needing to be made.

He constantly says "we are all in this together", but that's not true because if it were then rich individuals would pay their way so that people do not need to have to decide between heating and eating, or being ousted onto the streets or lining up at foodbanks as a result of the severe welfare cuts.

Declaring UKIP as centrist is both hilarious and worrying, the fact that you genuinely believe that and also that the politics may have drifted to the right in such a way.

Your comment on the left-wing only being capable of treason is also grossly uneducated and frankly idiotic. A lot of what is suggested is radical, and that is agreed upon. But I think you'll find the most radical ideas that have been implemented are also the most treasured in modern society. Think - universal suffrage, the ending of apartheid, a national health service, the minimum wage.. these were all frowned upon deeply "because it would hurt and scare away big businesses".. but in reality it never did.

I really ought to think you need to stop letting yourself be drip-fed the daily xenophobia and right-wing idiocy from the telegraph and the daily mail. They have vested interests in protecting immoral corporations that couldn't give a **** about normal people.

[empire]

labour spent money that should not of been spent, they have wasted money given to the eu, they made are wages go down, they have given foreign aid to leaders that buy big houses, cars, planes, rather than help the poor in those countries, labour spent millions on pointless schemes, that have done nothing for the country, the debt is at a trillion, and thats how much they have wasted, we are the ones that are paying the debts of other countries in the eu, and we won't get a penny back, under labour 267.3m was spent on pensions for judges, labour will never go back too its working class roots, labour are the ones that wanted cheap labour from east europe, and has backfired, if labour really cared for the working class, then they would of given the younger people a better chance in the future, but they would rather sell every thing we have for eu membership, thanks to labour we will have to work till we drop dead,

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

You clearly also have no understanding of how to balance the books either.

To even out thee deficit, you have two (or possibly three) solutions:

a) to make cuts to public services and reduce overall spending
b) to temporarily raise taxes on the richest until an economic recovery is significant enough for them to be lowered again
c) a mixture of the two.

I don't know about you, but B seems definitely like the most moral solution. It is not like we are going to send billionaires into poverty by meaning they have to pay an extra 5-10% in tax of their profits for a few years. But cutting public services ultimately will hit the poorest the most, and the tories did this all while lowering the tax of the richest which led to more cuts needing to be made.

He constantly says "we are all in this together", but that's not true because if it were then rich individuals would pay their way so that people do not need to have to decide between heating and eating, or being ousted onto the streets or lining up at foodbanks as a result of the severe welfare cuts.

Declaring UKIP as centrist is both hilarious and worrying, the fact that you genuinely believe that and also that the politics may have drifted to the right in such a way.

Your comment on the left-wing only being capable of treason is also grossly uneducated and frankly idiotic. A lot of what is suggested is radical, and that is agreed upon. But I think you'll find the most radical ideas that have been implemented are also the most treasured in modern society. Think - universal suffrage, the ending of apartheid, a national health service, the minimum wage.. these were all frowned upon deeply "because it would hurt and scare away big businesses".. but in reality it never did.

I really ought to think you need to stop letting yourself be drip-fed the daily xenophobia and right-wing idiocy from the telegraph and the daily mail. They have vested interests in protecting immoral corporations that couldn't give a **** about normal people.

new labour bankrupted the country, they are anti economics
they sold us out to Europe
they killed a million innocents
they bloated the state and covered up massive abuses
they failed to nationalise anything
they did nothing for small businesses
they did nothing for town centres
they robbed the little men with endless stealth taxes
they failed to do anything for industries
they increased the gap between rich at poor to the biggest in 200 years

they MUST totally divorce themselves from new labour and all new labourites and start again

who the hell are they? what are they about? what do they believe in? who do they represent and why haven't they apologised their their horrendous crimes

[Kizzy]

That has been the running theme well before 97, there was an opportunity for real change but it's been lost. I fear all we have in place of Ed is a group of 'Blair lite' who will as already seen use the media and to force the issues facing big business/donors as beneficial for society when as seen in the widening pay gap that is not the case.

[the truth]

kizzy as a new labourite who claims to want reform...why don't you state what you think labour need to do to get back on track

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

kizzy as a new labourite who claims to want reform...why don't you state what you think labour need to do to get back on track

Don't presume to know my political affiliation thank you, I'll decide where, when and what I wish to comment too.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

You clearly also have no understanding of how to balance the books either.

To even out thee deficit, you have two (or possibly three) solutions:

a) to make cuts to public services and reduce overall spending
b) to temporarily raise taxes on the richest until an economic recovery is significant enough for them to be lowered again
c) a mixture of the two.

I don't know about you, but B seems definitely like the most moral solution. It is not like we are going to send billionaires into poverty by meaning they have to pay an extra 5-10% in tax of their profits for a few years. But cutting public services ultimately will hit the poorest the most, and the tories did this all while lowering the tax of the richest which led to more cuts needing to be made.

He constantly says "we are all in this together", but that's not true because if it were then rich individuals would pay their way so that people do not need to have to decide between heating and eating, or being ousted onto the streets or lining up at foodbanks as a result of the severe welfare cuts.

Declaring UKIP as centrist is both hilarious and worrying, the fact that you genuinely believe that and also that the politics may have drifted to the right in such a way.

Your comment on the left-wing only being capable of treason is also grossly uneducated and frankly idiotic. A lot of what is suggested is radical, and that is agreed upon. But I think you'll find the most radical ideas that have been implemented are also the most treasured in modern society. Think - universal suffrage, the ending of apartheid, a national health service, the minimum wage.. these were all frowned upon deeply "because it would hurt and scare away big businesses".. but in reality it never did.

I really ought to think you need to stop letting yourself be drip-fed the daily xenophobia and right-wing idiocy from the telegraph and the daily mail. They have vested interests in protecting immoral corporations that couldn't give a **** about normal people.

A good post Josh, but there is another way to help 'balance the books' - STOP GIVING AWAY EACH YEAR, TENS OF BILLIONS OF POUNDS OF MONEY WE HAVE NOT GOT.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

You clearly also have no understanding of how to balance the books either.

To even out thee deficit, you have two (or possibly three) solutions:

a) to make cuts to public services and reduce overall spending
b) to temporarily raise taxes on the richest until an economic recovery is significant enough for them to be lowered again
c) a mixture of the two.

I don't know about you, but B seems definitely like the most moral solution. It is not like we are going to send billionaires into poverty by meaning they have to pay an extra 5-10% in tax of their profits for a few years. But cutting public services ultimately will hit the poorest the most, and the tories did this all while lowering the tax of the richest which led to more cuts needing to be made.

He constantly says "we are all in this together", but that's not true because if it were then rich individuals would pay their way so that people do not need to have to decide between heating and eating, or being ousted onto the streets or lining up at foodbanks as a result of the severe welfare cuts.

Declaring UKIP as centrist is both hilarious and worrying, the fact that you genuinely believe that and also that the politics may have drifted to the right in such a way.

Your comment on the left-wing only being capable of treason is also grossly uneducated and frankly idiotic. A lot of what is suggested is radical, and that is agreed upon. But I think you'll find the most radical ideas that have been implemented are also the most treasured in modern society. Think - universal suffrage, the ending of apartheid, a national health service, the minimum wage.. these were all frowned upon deeply "because it would hurt and scare away big businesses".. but in reality it never did.

I really ought to think you need to stop letting yourself be drip-fed the daily xenophobia and right-wing idiocy from the telegraph and the daily mail. They have vested interests in protecting immoral corporations that couldn't give a **** about normal people.

I agree with all of this post,furthermore, (b), in the list above is actually what I really hoped would come about when the Lib Dems went into coalition with the Conservatives.
I would also have supported,a benefits rise freeze for the same period,including pensions.

That being done would have likely secured the growth and recovery in place when the coalition took over,rather than destroying it.
Any natural savings cuts would not have needed to be done so quickly or on the scale they were.

The opportunity was there.
For once, a govt. could have got away with a raising of taxes for a period,the rewards for the probable success of such a policy would have been well earned rewards,rather than pathetically failing on all targets and needing to ask for the same time, to do the same things all over again.

[the truth]

Thank goodness new labour are dead forever
the ONLY chance labour have got of being re elected in the next 30 years is total reform clearing out root and branch all traces of new labour poisonous scum from the milibands to harriet haggard, burnham , kendall, ed balls up and his wife, mandelson, jowell, all of them and never allow them re entry
understand how brainless all their policies have been for 20 years , then apologise to the whole country and to the families of the million plus dead Iraqis and start again

[empire]

labour got way to complacent, in thinking that they had right to your vote, alot of working class voters have said this, in truth, they are spot on, your right truth, new labour are dead, and are in huge decline, but they will never go back too the way they where in are parents days, they are the party for the privilege, and have been when blair became leader, there covering up of child grooming in the north of england and also two white girls that where murdered by kebab oweners, and their bodies where chopped up for meat, was hidden by the party, who would trust that party with there childrens lives, new labour are the new lib dems,

[the truth]

20 top tips to get end new labour

1) actually listen to the people and small businesses
2) stop covering up failures in the public sector and nhs
3) fight the enormous waste in the public sector
4) end the stealth taxes that rapes and robbed the working classes
5) go hell for leather to fight to close tax loop holes , look for international support to close tax havens
6) regulate huge corporations and deregulate small businesses
7) rebuild town centres lower rates scrap car park charges
8) reduce vat to 10% with a view to totally scrapping this enslavement tax by 2025
9) form proper troubleshooters in every single public body where complaints can be dealth with confidentially
10) re engage with small business,...obsessing on raising minimum wage and scrapping zero hour contracts would be costing 1000s of jobs
11) get a member of business communities to attend each council meeting, especially those meetings about digging up the roads. get all the people together in a room far more often, the state of the roads is a joke. theres no need dig them up every other day....dig them up the same time...also speed bumps damage cars and make cars more dangerous and endanger patients in ambulances...THINK... put tighter time constraints on those who win the council contracts to dig up roads...this traffic hurts the economy millions of pounds..make the tendering process far more open
12) stop invading our civil liberties
13) draw up a constitution for the public bodies, the nhs, the emergency services and the police....who do they work for? make their jobs easier by reducing the damn paperwork, getting out of Europe again would help here. pur care back into the job. if a person is uncaring they should never be allowed to nurse, if a person is corrupt in any way he should never be a cop etc
14) understand our country is more corrupt unfair too burocratic and too litigious mainly because we are enslaved to the enormous European constitution of 587 pages of new laws
15) don't ever invade countries illegally again , kill all spin and new labour propaganda, apologise for all the heinous hideous crimes of new labour and give us back our free speech too
16) have more income tax levels for a far wider range of incomes...from 20k to 100 million.....10% 12.5% 15% ......a sliding scale all the way to 50%
17) make far more of the financial market scams illegal
18) build more prisons
19) tackle drug related crime the figures are the worst in the western world, just horrific
20) spread the wealth , fight to renationalise the energy the utilities, british telecom who have an unfair monopoly, british rail (why should the public subsidise a private secot £60 billion? what a scandal) get vat off all energy bills...why the heck should retired oaps pay £1000s of vat on their gas/electric/water bills? oh and reopen a few coal pits and get some industries going before we run out of energy and become enslaved to the russians

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

20 top tips to get end new labour

1) actually listen to the people and small businesses
2) stop covering up failures in the public sector and nhs
3) fight the enormous waste in the public sector
4) end the stealth taxes that rapes and robbed the working classes
5) go hell for leather to fight to close tax loop holes , look for international support to close tax havens
6) regulate huge corporations and deregulate small businesses
7) rebuild town centres lower rates scrap car park charges
8) reduce vat to 10% with a view to totally scrapping this enslavement tax by 2025
9) form proper troubleshooters in every single public body where complaints can be dealth with confidentially
10) re engage with small business,...obsessing on raising minimum wage and scrapping zero hour contracts would be costing 1000s of jobs
11) get a member of business communities to attend each council meeting, especially those meetings about digging up the roads. get all the people together in a room far more often, the state of the roads is a joke. theres no need dig them up every other day....dig them up the same time...also speed bumps damage cars and make cars more dangerous and endanger patients in ambulances...THINK... put tighter time constraints on those who win the council contracts to dig up roads...this traffic hurts the economy millions of pounds..make the tendering process far more open
12) stop invading our civil liberties
13) draw up a constitution for the public bodies, the nhs, the emergency services and the police....who do they work for? make their jobs easier by reducing the damn paperwork, getting out of Europe again would help here. pur care back into the job. if a person is uncaring they should never be allowed to nurse, if a person is corrupt in any way he should never be a cop etc
14) understand our country is more corrupt unfair too burocratic and too litigious mainly because we are enslaved to the enormous European constitution of 587 pages of new laws
15) don't ever invade countries illegally again , kill all spin and new labour propaganda, apologise for all the heinous hideous crimes of new labour and give us back our free speech too
16) have more income tax levels for a far wider range of incomes...from 20k to 100 million.....10% 12.5% 15% ......a sliding scale all the way to 50%
17) make far more of the financial market scams illegal
18) build more prisons
19) tackle drug related crime the figures are the worst in the western world, just horrific
20) spread the wealth , fight to renationalise the energy the utilities, british telecom who have an unfair monopoly, british rail (why should the public subsidise a private secot £60 billion? what a scandal) get vat off all energy bills...why the heck should retired oaps pay £1000s of vat on their gas/electric/water bills? oh and reopen a few coal pits and get some industries going before we run out of energy and become enslaved to the russians