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26-01-2017, 11:18 AM | #26 | |||
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26-01-2017, 01:58 PM | #27 | |||
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What I take from his teaching is that freedoms in certain sectors are exploited and it is the duty of those within the society to take action to stop the rot of corruption, however when that corruption is happening from the top down...it becomes impossible.
If they were held accountable, and those in govt and business were as culpable as the common man then that would show that there is a balance of justice, which is the bedrock of democracy. For me this is why the ruling of the supreme court on brexit was so pivotal, it showed that the law of the land has the power over governments too, it sent a powerful message that we are a democracy and that was it at work in it's purest form. constituencies can be doctored, voting tampered with, media influenced but judges take everything down to the bare bones and look at what is constitutionally sacrosanct. I believe that freedoms and rights are a necessity within a democracy, however that does not stretch to deregulation or self regulation of powerful organisations, there must be safeguards against corruption to prevent this risking the stability of the nation. My feeling is that Platos 'democracy without virtue' is what we are witnessing now, nothing is for the greater good, rather to maximise profit, that may be seen as an acceptable norm today and nobody is 'virtuous' which may be true...less is not more, more is more. This comes at a cost, as more and more people are disadvantaged and the haves turn a blind eye to the have nots, the scope of the have nots has grown from a gap to a gulf. I pity this generation with a millstone of debt for daring to secure a degree, unable to find affordable housing, crippled with record energy, living and fuel costs, what of their democracy, our legacy to them is that democracy has failed...it hasn't, we have failed democracy.
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26-01-2017, 02:03 PM | #28 | |||
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Just watched the video there, it's really interesting. What is the solution though?
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26-01-2017, 02:06 PM | #29 | ||
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In other words; there isn't one, we broke it |
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26-01-2017, 02:08 PM | #30 | |||
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Yeah, more like "clans" I suppose like how we would have started out? Yep too late
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26-01-2017, 02:10 PM | #31 | |||
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Nothing is ever going to work perfectly because people are so greedy, aggressive and despicable, generally.
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26-01-2017, 02:11 PM | #32 | ||
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Maybe not... if the human population is devastated by a supervirus ("The Stand" style) that kills 99%+ of humans, it could work out OK. Of course that has to happen before we nuke ourselves. Or trigger irreversible global warming. ... .. .... so, there's hope yet!
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26-01-2017, 02:13 PM | #33 | |||
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Yes this too. Power will pretty much always lead to corruption
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26-01-2017, 02:14 PM | #34 | |||
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26-01-2017, 02:19 PM | #35 | ||
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Or do those societal values arise naturally because we DO have some sort of "instinct for greed", related to primal urges to gain and hold territory, and survival instinct. That "having more" for ourselves and our own small group = higher likelihood of survival. Then again that's really just something to think about out of curiosity, because if it's where we are now, it doesn't really matter "why" I suppose. |
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26-01-2017, 02:20 PM | #36 | ||
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26-01-2017, 02:21 PM | #37 | |||
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26-01-2017, 02:21 PM | #38 | |||
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Humans didn't always live in big societies with lots of laws and governance. But we've always regularly slaughtered each other in massive batches. Humans are a bit like the French. Individually... charming. Collectively... not as nice as you'd imagine.
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26-01-2017, 02:22 PM | #39 | |||
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Hey! I'm supposed to be the forum cynic
I don't happen to believe that I believe that what the majority of people want is just a secure job with enough money to not have to choose whether to heat or eat. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely....or something like that, joe public just want to work to live, not live to work.
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26-01-2017, 02:25 PM | #40 | |||
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Even the ancient Mayans had governments.
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26-01-2017, 02:26 PM | #41 | |||
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No I feel really depressed all of a sudden
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26-01-2017, 02:29 PM | #42 | ||
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Then again, there was plenty of land and resources to go around on the American continent before Europeans arrived, and yet various tribes there were perpetually at war with each other. Ponder ponder. It's making me want to study some Sociology. One of the few degree paths I haven't already stumbled half way down |
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26-01-2017, 02:31 PM | #43 | ||
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26-01-2017, 02:37 PM | #44 | |||
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Aw come here you big silly! people aren't all greedy and aggressive, if they were then how did the NHS come about? and all the philanthropic, charitable organisations?
There is a balance, sometimes it feels like it's tipping... but we're resilient. As my dad said, 'Good will out'
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26-01-2017, 02:43 PM | #45 | ||
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26-01-2017, 03:06 PM | #46 | |||
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It just seems really bad times are coming, I like to think you're right, things seem very bleak now though
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26-01-2017, 03:56 PM | #47 | |||
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The erosion of civil liberties, the collapse of political freedoms and the rise of neo-nazi thinkers, its not freedom, its fraud. When economic interest overpowers your vote and a tenth of the 1% of the richest people in America, controls the decisions made by millions of people and nobody without political privilege can get involved and when the 70% of the American population do not have any kind of influence on the policies in their country they no longer live in a democracy that represents its people. " land only becomes a democracy when the poor are victorious Yes, America are living in a failed democracy and its only those with survival instincts that are asking, "what the fcuks going on?... What we have to remember is, Britain is in the habit of hanging off the American coattails and the oligarchs that are presently ruling this country could so easily tip the balance.
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26-01-2017, 04:01 PM | #48 | |||
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I'm just heading out to do some mundane tasks but at least you've now given me something to think about!!
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26-01-2017, 07:57 PM | #49 | |||
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Excellent topic really thought provoking.
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26-01-2017, 08:17 PM | #50 | |||
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Thatcher deliberately played on peoples desire for material wealth and in turn, those who reveled in this new consumer environment made others feel like failures if they couldn't afford these goodies. We could ask; are we programmable? (I think that's an easy one) A tougher question is; What is the essence of human nature?
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No longer on this site. Last edited by DemolitionRed; 26-01-2017 at 08:18 PM. |
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