[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And therein lies the problem with making sweeping statements about religion when discussing other issues. You get backlash, and the real issue gets lost.

But hey... you gotta fight for the right to... say stuff about Muslims etc. at any given opportunity. I guess. I mean that's the important thing isn't it? What was this story about again?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps some truth in that, but as is frequently pointed out, the gender inequality issues are largely cultural rather than religious, and more relevant to country of origin than religious leanings. Therefore, saying "an Asian gang" is sufficient, and there is no need to emphasise (possibly even assume?) "Muslim Asian". It feels, to me, like kicking the hornet's nest purely for the sake of it, or "point scoring". As always, counter-productive and distracting from the issue at hand and for... what? The "right" to make some sort of petty point.

"Aha those Muslims again!", absolutely no different to the "white people cant be racist" rhetoric. It's "outrage and incredulity" and the expense of real progress.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mentioned neither colour nor race? It is you who is assuming that all middle eastern men are practicing Muslims, by insisting on terming a middle eastern gang "a Muslim gang".

Regardless; my point stands. No matter how much truth ther is in it, if focussing on "Muslim!" is actually counterproductive to finding a solution, then why do it? Does the right to be fruitlessly outraged come before the need for level-headed solutions?

This and this and this all day long.

The constant need to highlight the word Muslim is pointless at best.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

This and this and this all day long.

The constant need to highlight the word Muslim is pointless at best.

it's a bit deeper than going around abusing teens, it an attitudinal problem that they see white girls as easy? why aren't they abusing young girls from their own community?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it's a bit deeper than going around abusing teens, it an attitudinal problem that they see white girls as easy? why aren't they abusing young girls from their own community?

All questions we don't have answers to.

As Niamh said, it would be like assuming all Western white people were Christian.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

All questions we don't have answers to.

As Niamh said, it would be like assuming all Western white people were Christian.

it is a problem within the muslim community, when it was a problem in the Catholic community they were called catholic priests, they weren't called priests because there can be priests in any number of religions and Catholics didn't try to excuse them, like the excuses we are hearing from this community.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it is a problem within the muslim community, when it was a problem in the Catholic community they were called catholic priests, they weren't called priests because there can be priests in any number of religions and Catholics didn't try to excuse them, like the excuses we are hearing from this community.

But priests actually work in churches and with followers of said religion. That became a problem within the actual church.

Unless these men are Imam's(?) it's not really the same comparison.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But priests actually work in churches and with followers of said religion. That became a problem within the actual church.

Unless these men are Imam's(?) it's not really the same comparison.

Yes exactly what i was trying to say.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But priests actually work in churches and with followers of said religion. That became a problem within the actual church.

Unless these men are Imam's(?) it's not really the same comparison.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes exactly what i was trying to say.

I don't really get that argument because Anglican priests were involved as well but your rarely hear them being referred to, they weren't as prolific but that is not the point.

The worrying thing is the excuses being made so rather than identify with the victims these men were complaining about the use of the word muslim and the fact that they girls should have been looked after as they were deemed to be vulnerable and if someone had looked after them better then this issue wouldn't have arisen.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it's a bit deeper than going around abusing teens, it an attitudinal problem that they see white girls as easy? why aren't they abusing young girls from their own community?

Cause they dont have much to do with their wives.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

it's a bit deeper than going around abusing teens, it an attitudinal problem that they see white girls as easy? why aren't they abusing young girls from their own community?

Spot on Cherie. It is an attitudinal and cultural problem being tolerated and excused in a country generally appalled by such behaviour all in the name of the usual nausiating and cowardly PC.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Spot on Cherie. It is an attitudinal and cultural problem being tolerated and excused in a country generally appalled by such behaviour all in the name of the usual nausiating and cowardly PC.

This is the point isn't is who made excuses for Rolf, Max et al, no one, who tried to engage them or rehabilitate them and they will be rightly shunned by society Some of those involved in the Rotherham scandal have been released and have disappeared back into their community, meanwhile the community nurse who acted as whisleblower was sacked, what a wonderful world we live in

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This is the point isn't is who made excuses for Rolf, Max et al, no one, who tried to engage them or rehabilitate them and they will be rightly shunned by society Some of those involved in the Rotherham scandal have been released and have disappeared back into their community, meanwhile the community nurse who acted as whisleblower was sacked, what a wonderful world we live in

Who is making excuses for the criminals or talking about engaging with or rehabilitating the people who actually committed these crimes? The point is to engage with and not alienate immigrant communities so that pockets of subculture that feel above the law don't develop in the first place. I can see that some people find the entire concept very difficult to understand, so I guess therein lies the problem.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Who is making excuses for the criminals or talking about engaging with or rehabilitating the people who actually committed these crimes? The point is to engage with and not alienate immigrant communities so that pockets of subculture that feel above the law don't develop in the first place. I can see that some people find the entire concept very difficult to understand, so I guess therein lies the problem.

These are all British born men, I'm pretty sure they understand Western culture well enough, do they not know right from wrong? are they driven to do this because they are alienated, they do it because they are enabled and therein lies the problem.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

These are all British born men, I'm pretty sure they understand Western culture well enough, do they not know right from wrong? are they driven to do this because they are alienated, they do it because they are enabled and therein lies the problem.

I didn't say they are doing it because they are alienated ffs! I'm saying the communities are alienated and that alienation shifts them out of sync with wider society, and that disconnect allows groups of disturbed and abhorrent individuals to feel that they can do whatever they want.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Who is making excuses for the criminals or talking about engaging with or rehabilitating the people who actually committed these crimes? The point is to engage with and not alienate immigrant communities so that pockets of subculture that feel above the law don't develop in the first place. I can see that some people find the entire concept very difficult to understand, so I guess therein lies the problem.

Disagreeing with your points/views does not equate to 'very difficult to understand'. Rather arrogant point of view in my view.

To engage is and should be a two-way process and many are simply fed up with with the onus of responsibility being dumped on those on one side of the equation all the time.