[Vicky.]

Having said this, even without reading the RSPCA stuff I am almost swayed by this alone

Which countries have banned non-stun slaughter, including for halal and kosher?
Denmark, Iceland and Sweden

As I believe the Nordic countries to be way advanced than us when concerning almost all matters.

Though still...as I have said through the whole thread, I put more importance on living conditions than the minute or so before/during death. But would still prefer the least painful method to be used in all animal slaughter, obviously.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Having said this, even without reading the RSPCA stuff I am almost swayed by this alone



As I believe the Nordic countries to be way advanced than us when concerning almost all matters.

Though still...as I have said through the whole thread, I put more importance on living conditions than the minute or so before/during death. But would still prefer the least painful method to be used in all animal slaughter, obviously.

I still believe it's more of a health and safety issue than anything as to why non-stun methods are banned in those countries.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I still believe it's more of a health and safety issue than anything as to why non-stun methods are banned in those countries.

Possible of course.

I believe that stunning is used in our country more for a health and safety thing than a welfare thing. So it would stand to reason that as much (if not more) emphasis was put on health and safety of the workers in those countries.

I'm a bit all over my place on my views on this, as I have never really thought deeply into the matter before tbh. I have been pretty firmly in the...living conditions matter so much more than final few minutes of life camp for as long as I can remember. Until for some reason I became overinvested in this thread. Which is nothing to do with cultural beliefs, more because it seems rational to me that a clean cut to the throat with a sharp enough knife should cause very little pain, if any at all and would be over quickly. And it was interesting to see a study posted that seemed to back up my thoughts on this. I think this is where I became over invested and maybe started getting a little silly with my bold statements

Obviously if we could get it where living conditions were always good, AND we had a universal method of death which was proven beyond all doubt to cause the least pain then that would be much preferable. But thats unlikely to happen anytime soon. Maybe this lab grown meat stuff might end some of this debate. Though we will always need to slaughter animals for food, even of the whole world went veggie. Unless we also gave up our pets at the same time...as it is definite cruelty to make a carnivore pet survive on a vegetarian diet IMO.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Possible of course.

I believe that stunning is used in our country more for a health and safety thing than a welfare thing. So it would stand to reason that as much (if not more) emphasis was put on health and safety of the workers in those countries.

I'm a bit all over my place on my views on this, as I have never really thought deeply into the matter before tbh. I have been pretty firmly in the...living conditions matter so much more than final few minutes of life camp for as long as I can remember. Until for some reason I became overinvested in this thread. Which is nothing to do with cultural beliefs, more because it seems rational to me that a clean cut to the throat with a sharp enough knife should cause very little pain, if any at all and would be over quickly. And it was interesting to see a study posted that seemed to back up my thoughts on this. I think this is where I became over invested and maybe started getting a little silly with my bold statements

Obviously if we could get it where living conditions were always good, AND we had a universal method of death which was proven beyond all doubt to cause the least pain then that would be much preferable. But thats unlikely to happen anytime soon. Maybe this lab grown meat stuff might end some of this debate. Though we will always need to slaughter animals for food, even of the whole world went veggie. Unless we also gave up our pets at the same time...as it is definite cruelty to make a carnivore pet survive on a vegetarian diet IMO.

I feel very much the same, there is no kind method of killing an animal for meat and, judging by studies of how much the animal suffers with each method, the only real difference with western techniques is the delusion we place ourselves under. It would be lovely if there was a kind way of killing animals for meat but there isn't one that won't spoil the meat.

More emphasis should be placed on living conditions and it wouldn't surprise me if the countries you listed earlier have laws and regulations that reflect that. Battery farms and the like should be illegal, it would certainly help the farming industry if industrial battery farms are outlawed in favour of more traditional and kinder farming methods more common to the average farm.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I feel very much the same, there is no kind method of killing an animal for meat and, judging by studies of how much the animal suffers with each method, the only real difference with western techniques is the delusion we place ourselves under. It would be lovely if there was a kind way of killing animals for meat but there isn't one that won't spoil the meat.

More emphasis should be placed on living conditions and it wouldn't surprise me if the countries you listed earlier have laws and regulations that reflect that. Battery farms and the like should be illegal, it would certainly help the farming industry if industrial battery farms are outlawed in favour of more traditional and kinder farming methods more common to the average farm.

They have battery farms for rabbits as well over in Spain, they're awful

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They have battery farms for rabbits as well over in Spain, they're awful

One of the worst videos I ever saw was Angora rabbits having their feet tied so they were outstretched and couldn't move, and some moron pulling its fur out to make Angora wool,it was barbaric,I can hear the screams from that rabbit now,worst is when the morans have got what they want,they put the rabbit back in its cage until fur grows again,then the poor thing has to endure it all again,this is their life,they would be better off dead imo.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

One of the worst videos I ever saw was Angora rabbits having their feet tied so they were outstretched and couldn't move, and some moron pulling its fur out to make Angora wool,it was barbaric,I can hear the screams from that rabbit now,worst is when the morans have got what they want,they put the rabbit back in its cage until fur grows again,then the poor thing has to endure it all again,this is their life,they would be better off dead imo.

That sounds disgusting..like force fed geese.